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  1. #1

    Tuning to get 1-4 and 2-3 to burn the same on the plug

    I have been using my Vipec now for nearly 4 years. I have had on 3 different skis, first Fx then Fz and now back on 2012 fx. I have been alternating between Et 14 and Et 16.
    I have been following all the treads and advice over the years but have never seem to be albe to get my 1-4 and 2-3 plugs to burn the same.
    I have just built my vipec over on my new fx and are going through the tuning process again and once again relaized how different the plugs burn. I suppose a little different would not be am issue but they are 1-4 black and 23 white. The problem is that I am running a bit rich on the lamda but dont want to change it because I dont think 2-3 could hnadle any leaner. I have tried the diffent fuel maps for 1-4 and 2-3 but I dont know if I am runnign a big enough compensation and I would like to know what you guys are doing to compensate for that.


  2. #2
    Kristian Keppel Waterholics's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if the Vi-PEC can do it but I know desperado measured the lambda on all his cylinders with a MoTeC and adjusted the fuel map on each cylinder to suit.
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...=1#post1743157

  3. #3
    I can adjust 1-4 and 2-3 seperately. What corrections are you running to compensate or do you not have the same problem. I see you are also running vipec.


    Quote Originally Posted by Waterholics View Post
    I'm not sure if the Vi-PEC can do it but I know desperado measured the lambda on all his cylinders with a MoTeC and adjusted the fuel map on each cylinder to suit.
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...=1#post1743157

  4. #4
    Kristian Keppel Waterholics's Avatar
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    From what I'm reading in the thread desperado added 2-3% fuel trim to cylinder #2 and #3 depending on RPM. I've personally never had this problem but his is what it takes to fix it I guess.

  5. #5
    305coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miker1 View Post
    I have been using my Vipec now for nearly 4 years. I have had on 3 different skis, first Fx then Fz and now back on 2012 fx. I have been alternating between Et 14 and Et 16.
    I have been following all the treads and advice over the years but have never seem to be albe to get my 1-4 and 2-3 plugs to burn the same.
    I have just built my vipec over on my new fx and are going through the tuning process again and once again relaized how different the plugs burn. I suppose a little different would not be am issue but they are 1-4 black and 23 white. The problem is that I am running a bit rich on the lamda but dont want to change it because I dont think 2-3 could hnadle any leaner. I have tried the diffent fuel maps for 1-4 and 2-3 but I dont know if I am runnign a big enough compensation and I would like to know what you guys are doing to compensate for that.
    the problem here is the intake manifold design. period!
    cylinders 2 and 3 get more air than 1 and 4.
    and if you happen to hold a riva intake manifold upgrade in your hand take the time to measure it with a digital caliper, (its a conical bore) the ribbon delete ring goes in one way and if you measure it youll see that one side of the opening is smaller than the other, and the smaller side goes up towards the manifold (bigger opening goes down toward TB)
    this conical ring will also help speed up the air to the center affecting cylinder 2 and 3.

    you can trim the fuel to 2 and 3 to compensate but then those 2 cylinders will make slightly more power than 1 and 4. but to my knowledge this is not the best way to go about it, you want the engine to receive the same amount of fuel and air in each cylinder so it can be perfectly balanced. so the manifold is the one that really needs to be corrected. IMO
    i have a modded manifold just havent had the time to conclude testing with it. too busy riding the ski every weekend..

  6. #6
    Kristian Keppel Waterholics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 305coco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by miker1 View Post
    I have been using my Vipec now for nearly 4 years. I have had on 3 different skis, first Fx then Fz and now back on 2012 fx. I have been alternating between Et 14 and Et 16.
    I have been following all the treads and advice over the years but have never seem to be albe to get my 1-4 and 2-3 plugs to burn the same.
    I have just built my vipec over on my new fx and are going through the tuning process again and once again relaized how different the plugs burn. I suppose a little different would not be am issue but they are 1-4 black and 23 white. The problem is that I am running a bit rich on the lamda but dont want to change it because I dont think 2-3 could hnadle any leaner. I have tried the diffent fuel maps for 1-4 and 2-3 but I dont know if I am runnign a big enough compensation and I would like to know what you guys are doing to compensate for that.
    the problem here is the intake manifold design. period!
    cylinders 2 and 3 get more air than 1 and 4.
    and if you happen to hold a riva intake manifold upgrade in your hand take the time to measure it with a digital caliper, (its a conical bore) the ribbon delete ring goes in one way and if you measure it youll see that one side of the opening is smaller than the other, and the smaller side goes up towards the manifold (bigger opening goes down toward TB)
    this conical ring will also help speed up the air to the center affecting cylinder 2 and 3.

    you can trim the fuel to 2 and 3 to compensate but then those 2 cylinders will make slightly more power than 1 and 4. but to my knowledge this is not the best way to go about it, you want the engine to receive the same amount of fuel and air in each cylinder so it can be perfectly balanced. so the manifold is the one that really needs to be corrected. IMO
    i have a modded manifold just havent had the time to conclude testing with it. too busy riding the ski every weekend..
    I agree. But as is wouldn't cylinder 2 and 3 make more power than 1 and 4 since they are leaner? I wouldn't mind adding a little fuel to balance the power a little and try to make cylinder 2 and 3 safer, because when people read there AFR's some don't realise it an average of all cylinders and some people like to get a little wild and lean it out but on this platform because of the manifold design number 2 and 3 can be running up to .2 leaner than the average AFR.

  7. #7
    Lightning Struck's Avatar
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    Re: Tuning to get 1-4 and 2-3 to burn the same on the plug

    I don't see any issue using the ind. cyl. trims. I also don't think the "balance" argument is sound. If your accelerating, each individual cylinder firing is making more power than the last. Cylinder pressure and sealing also vary between all the cylinder's as well.

  8. #8
    fx160's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Struck View Post
    I don't see any issue using the ind. cyl. trims. I also don't think the "balance" argument is sound. If your accelerating, each individual cylinder firing is making more power than the last. Cylinder pressure and sealing also vary between all the cylinder's as well.
    nor do i
    i think it's more impotant to get all the cylinders running the same lamda's
    and temps

  9. #9
    If you have individual cylinder trim capability, EGT is the most common way to balance the cylinders. Richen up the hot cylinders until they are all even, then tune all cylinders based on your wideband O2 readings. That's how those who do it, do it in the motorcycles.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DynojetResearch View Post
    If you have individual cylinder trim capability, EGT is the most common way to balance the cylinders. Richen up the hot cylinders until they are all even, then tune all cylinders based on your wideband O2 readings. That's how those who do it, do it in the motorcycles.
    thanks for the replies guys. the only problem is that you get an overall lamda. The plugs are very very lean on 2-3. I want to richen them up first but I would like to know what corrections the other guys are running. 5%-10%? or more%

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