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  1. #1

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    Joey 201......6 months (R.I.P)

    Update

    Joey Scaturchio......201 (R.I.P April 22, 2012)


    It has been six months since our Joey died at Queensland Nationals here in Australia.
    The reason I am writing on Greenhulk is that I am confused what has happened since and wanting a mini survey to what all of you think!

    My Newphew was allegedly smashed in a race by another rider and the incident is under Police Forensic Investigation.
    The Queensland Personal Watercraft Club which holds Jet ski racing still allows this rider to compete, he has raced twice since April 22, 2012.

    What I am asking is.....

    1. Do you think this is right?'
    2. How would you feel competing in the same race as this rider when everything is still under Police Investigation?.
    3. How much disrespect has this Queensland Club shown towards a fellow deceased rider and the family?.


    Makes me very angry when this Organisation shows this sort of behaviour.
    Joey deserved better.
    Love you ....Joey
    Zio


  2. #2
    Moderator shawn alladio's Avatar
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    Hello Zio. This is something I believe will be very difficult for anyone to respond towards publically. There are so many reasons and concerns regarding your grief and your anger. You need to be heard. However, the responses you may seek or may not receive might not help you with your anger or your grief. This is difficult emotionally, spiritually and in every other regard, even outward to a community. Many people here may not even be aware of his death, how or what took place or not willing to respond or even know what to do with your request. This is a sensitive and private subject for families dealing with the loss of a child, son, or friend. I think it will not be a good place for you to receive what you are hoping for. I don't think anyone, at least I will speak for myself can answer this for you. It is a hard situation, harder for the family. I am not sure that anger ever goes away when a child is killed or dies in an accident or through a disease. In my family with my sisters loss, her death changed our family, not for the best, but we adjusted, never to be who we were before her death. I say this with deep regret and understanding.


  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shawn alladio View Post
    Hello Zio. This is something I believe will be very difficult for anyone to respond towards publically. There are so many reasons and concerns regarding your grief and your anger. You need to be heard. However, the responses you may seek or may not receive might not help you with your anger or your grief. This is difficult emotionally, spiritually and in every other regard, even outward to a community. Many people here may not even be aware of his death, how or what took place or not willing to respond or even know what to do with your request. This is a sensitive and private subject for families dealing with the loss of a child, son, or friend. I think it will not be a good place for you to receive what you are hoping for. I don't think anyone, at least I will speak for myself can answer this for you. It is a hard situation, harder for the family. I am not sure that anger ever goes away when a child is killed or dies in an accident or through a disease. In my family with my sisters loss, her death changed our family, not for the best, but we adjusted, never to be who we were before her death. I say this with deep regret and understanding.
    Sorry maybe zio wasn't clear enough.

    From my understanding it was a motor sport accident. We get that. In Motorsport of all kind you have accidents unfortunately. You learn, live move on. Where not taking into consideration that this man is still racing after his killed another rider.

    I can see the anger that if you're in a accident well that's Motorsport and unfortunately these things happen. But for the rider who is NOT a pro rider caused a accident that could have easily been avoided by not even being in he race in the first place.

    If you want to compare it apple with apples well I'll put it to you like this. If you're family member was killed by a man who was intoxicated behind the wheel and killed a family member how would you go by that. You would say that person should not have been driving intoxicated behind the wheel But these things happen . But how would you like that whilst police are investigating his death this man is still driving.

    The worst part about it is everyone has moved on as if it's all okay. Well i can tell you now it's not okay. It's not okay to still be riding like everything is okay. Maybe if video footage was public it would change the thoughts of allot of people around the world who till today think this was just a ordinary accident.

    Every rider has a duty of care and that was clearly not shown.

    Not even a lousy appolyagy has been put forward to the family by the rider. Discustting and pathectic.

  4. #4
    Moderator shawn alladio's Avatar
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    Okay, I think I see what you are asking for. I believe this is a valuable community discussion if its done with heart and soul and not vengeance.

    Racing is risk. Motorsports are dependent upon many contributable factors.

    There are hundreds of them if we want to break down each instance of supporting data to have a clear picture of how an accident occurs. It’s a chain of events. That is what investigations produce, but then what is being investigated? Is that what you are asking?

    This may boil down to ‘assumption of risk’. Without any emotional attachment directly respecting Joey himself which will not be easy.

    This is something every racers needs to spend some personal time with prior to paying an entry fee and make their own decision. The promoters/associate bodies provide a measure of this assumption of risk in terms of what they state on their liability release waivers. Such as ‘you can die in this activity’. There is no guarantee of safety or for each rider capability, there is in fact, no guarantee for anything positive in terms of risk of accident or injury. I do not know the vetting system for racers in Australia to race in various classifications. The legal issue is if any of us sign that waiver, it counts as an agreement between the parties. If one doesn’t agree to the terms, then one doesn’t sign the waiver and possibly (I’m not sure however), that could prevent them from being on a race track. Essentially if you are not happy with the caliber of racers or the event itself, you don’t race, you withdraw and do not place yourself in what you would consider harm’s way.

    When I work race events as a course marshal, I am given no guarantee for my personal safety. In fact, it is the obverse. I realize I can be killed or injured working a race track. Yes, I have been injured and provided no compensation for damages or healing time. I prepare for that. I prepare my staff that I lead as well, I let them know where my responsibilities are and how they will need to carry on in my absence, to transfer my body, to take care of my children, my equipment and so forth. I prepare my will. I also prepare them to do the same, that they too should not get on that track if they do not feel safe. Many times, they have not felt safe and I have had staff members decline to work on the track. That is their volition. And they are right! They are adults, so there is no parent making those decisions for them, and I understand their concerns. They have jobs and families depending upon them, they have to choose what is best for their life. This happened after Cesare died, most of the staff didn’t want to continue. How can you blame them? When I work a track I have to give a measure of trust to every caliber of racer and class distinction. One of my staff members has been killed as an official during a race event, so it is something I pay attention to. It is real for us as it is the racer.

    What is that? We prepare in advance. We train, we spend a lot of time pre operations and post operations checks and team work. Even then, the assumption of risk remains extreme. I do that job because I have a desire and a passion for it, even though I know it can claim my life. I realize this is selfish, because where will this leave my children with my decisions? They will have to carry on and face their spiritual and emotional feelings, perhaps anger directed towards me I imagine..and so forth and so on. Possibly even worse if I was the one who contributed to that ‘imaginary’ death.

    I cannot speak for anyone else. For any other family. Or any other competitor. I can only speak about how I approach my actions and choices. I will not defend anyone else either, they are entitled to their right of free speech, and also their opinions, which I greatly appreciate. It takes courage to share pure thoughts. I don’t know how racers train. I don’t know their maturity level or how they make effective decisions. I don’t know how they respond to pressure and maintain composure, I don’t know anything about these people I work for. Each one of them to me I see as a potential threat to my life. So I am extremely careful with my work. I want to come home.

    I was not at this race, nor did I witness the tragic accident. I have only heard third hand stories, and that is not reliable as fact. It would be very difficult for me to have an opinion on something I was not a part of. I am not being disrespectful, that is a fair observation I think you would agree.

    Joey was competing in the same race that Cesare Vismara died in I believe several years back. This was a situation I was involved with personally, and there were many who viewed it. That risk suddenly became quite real to all of us. Cesare’s death created rightfully so a lot of passionate responses, grief, frustration, anger, resentments, and mourning. But it’s always the other person, not us.. then when its us…life changes, not for the better. It’s an ugly place to be.

    No PWC race is worth a life in my heart and soul. I don’t believe this. Neither is a car accident, nor a bicycle accident…because it’s the finality and trauma of these impact deaths and then what? The contributable factors? Those are left up to the authorities to make their decisions on the completion of the investigations per society standards, mainly for lawsuits or insurance claims or family demand. They have their methods in place for their conclusions. For a racing governing body, I do not know what their decisions are based upon for rider qualification, vetting or so forth. That is solely for them to answer and for the membership to demand. If the membership isn’t demanding it in calm times, then there is no problem. If the membership is not paying attention to the associate bodies or promoters way of conducting business day to day, one has a choice. Become involved and press for changes, demand them. Fight for them, investigate and educate or do not participate. But don’t wait for a tragedy to force this on any of you. (no disrespect)

    I do believe that there are some things that can be approached in terms of event management and safety concerns and are far overdue. This will not prevent risk or injury or death, but each incident should be reviewed in detail and extract anything that can be learned or modified to increase safety considerations is imperative. This should be conducted by subject matter experts and be taken seriously, but the membership doesn’t really seem to care. They pay their dues and they don’t want to be involved, usually using that word ‘politics’, which I disagree. It’s not politics, that’s an excuse, its management. If you don’t like the management, do something about it.

    I do not believe that this was a homicide (intentional), but an accident. What are the contributing factors to that? Rider capability, physical and emotional fitness, skill levels attained, rider classification, vessel integrity, weather and water conditions, track design, throttle modulations, trim capabilities, body weight, centrifugal force, forces of action and so forth… I don’t know, who is determining that, I don’t know.

    Rider safety has been breached by the death of Joey during racing. Was this other rider a concern prior to the staging of that race? Was it voiced to the officials in writing to confirm? Or was this done after the fact of his death? Are there complaints prior about this racer and what were they? How were those complaints addressed? That is the approach that needs to be taken, addressing facts in a chronological order to determine the probable causes.

    Safety is not a guarantee in racing, in fact in my world I use the term ‘Safety Means Danger’. The sport has an average fatality rate of 1 person annually around the world. Statistically for how many water hours underway and the associated risks of a fast low profile power craft the deaths are not necessarily climbing with the increase of horsepower, deaths remain fairly steady in numbers except this year we have experienced 2 deaths in 2 months time: 1 runabout, 1 stand up. This does not take into consideration traumatic injuries that occur from blunt force trauma.

    I do not know why an apology was not made. It seems the right thing to do, to show remorse. That’s dependent upon many variables of a person involved directly. Is it shame, fear, guilt? I don’t know. Only they know. Is it a moral compass that isn’t mature enough to handle the reality or gravity of the situation? Does this person lack empathy? I don’t know. Maybe it’s a character flaw, or fear of what to do…sometimes people don’t know what to do, so they do nothing, they hide. I have seen that happen in other situations. They go silent. Or perhaps they don’t feel it was their fault, who can say? Could be other things involved as well… I don’t know and I cannot speculate. Why don’t you ask them why directly?

    People move on because they don’t want to be involved. They don’t want it to be them. They don’t know what to say to make it better. Some people don’t know how to deal with the grief of others. They stumble and make clumsy attempts to offer something and they make it worse. Most people I think just don’t want to take a side or be that front person, or have their life altered from its present course. Until it suddenly becomes you, dealing with tragedy…its all too real and hurtful. Most folks cannot comprehend that.

    I have witnessed people who are highly qualified make mistakes on the race track, myself included. We will make mistakes, each racer on a track makes many mistakes during their circuits, most are not seen as short comings. Most of them are minor. They go away in time, with fiberglass repair, or an apology or not. Sometimes they never go away. But the situations of deaths in racing are few and not common, especially in Australian racing. What to do with this situation? How to face it as a community in Australia and abroad?

    If you don't get an apology, what will you do with that?

    What do you want to do with it? Where do you want this to go?

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  6. #5
    Moderator shawn alladio's Avatar
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    Have you contacted the Queensland Club and entered into dialogue on these questions?

  7. #6

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    Dear Shawn,
    Any comments, facts and or opinions have been deleted on AUstralian jet ski web sites not because of defamatory reasons but it could be for selfish reasons. That is why I am on greenhulk to show, demonstrate and uncover truths.
    I saw recently that the newly elected Ajbsa President now hall of fame inducted should show leadership and responsibility right now. Imagine if there were another fatal incident, he and the Queensland club would have blood on their hands.
    It would be too little too late.

  8. #7
    Moderator shawn alladio's Avatar
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    I see....

  9. #8
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    The problem as I see it is all about liability ! The Ajsba is being told not to admit to anything. That means not taking any action against any racer or other person . A Lawyer would use that as an admission of liability, in my opinion no other motor racing body allows novices to race with pro's , why are Pwc any different ? Its time to change things in Australia or someone else maybe hurt or killed by neglecting a duty of care .

  10. #9
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    Plain and simple , this guy should not be racing until the outcome of the enquiry, show some god dam respect for his family , this is disgusting !!

    Rip Joe ��

    My love and best wishes to an absolute fantastic family

  11. #10
    Moderator shawn alladio's Avatar
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    Was this a Pro and a Novice racer in the same race?

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