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  1. #1

    MSX 150 coolant empty and milky oil

    Hello, I've got a 2004 MSX 150 that i got cheap on a trade with 30 hours on it. It fires rite up but has milky oil and every time i pour coolant in it disappears. I did a compression test with a weak battery and got 120 in both cylinders. I assumed it was the water pump so i removed the inter cooler (full of milky sludge , removed the intake for the turbo (full of milky sludge), same with the oil cooler. I removed the factory oil Cyclone and it had something rattling in the bottom of it.
    Once I removed the water coolant pump I found a small piece of metal jammed in the fins and the top of each fin had scrape marks on them but the housing did not have any marks on it. The seal does appear to be broken which kinda makes me happy because im not looking at a head gasket problem.

    Questions.
    Do these water pump seals fail often?
    where could this piece of metal come from in the coolant system?
    Is there a way to take the factory cyclone apart and fix it?
    Whats the best way to clean all the slug out of the system?

    Any advise is much appreciated!

    From what I've seen online these machines are awesome. It would have been nice if Polaris and Weber would have worked out the bugs and stuck with them.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome

    The Weber experts will be along eventually.

    In the meantime have a look through my signature links for some useful info.

  3. #3
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Welcome to GreenHulk!

    You've got yourself a rare breed of Polaris... the one-year-wonder, only 4-stroke Polaris ever made (MSX 110 and 150).

    There is good information in K447's signature link... and tons in threads here in the 'MSX/Matrix' sub-forum.

    Here's some to take a look at:
    Oil Ingestion / Rollover Issues
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178708
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156176
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/show...=101667&page=2
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94484
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113777
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156364

    Milky Oil
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=188030
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=188746
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159400
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142139

    Oil Tank Repair (pics old and upgraded)
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=78852
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157026
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155414


    As for your direct questions:
    Do these water pump seals fail often?
    - Doesn't seem to be a common problem, but has been reported. There are 2 water systems. 1. closed, coolant system that cools the engine and turbo and oil. 2. open, raw water system to cool the intercooler, heat exchanger, oil tank and exhaust. It can be tough to determine sometimes which is getting into the oil... but in your case, it's obviously coolant. Coolant and oil systems both cross in the oil cooler... but you can also get coolant in the water through bad water pump seal as you suspect and through blown headgaskets.

    where could this piece of metal come from in the coolant system?
    - Hard to say... if it's not a waterpump impeller fin, it could be out of the oil cooler. There are fins in there for heat transfer.

    Is there a way to take the factory cyclone apart and fix it?
    - I've not heard of anyone fixing a cyclone. I can't imagine what would be in it rattling? Your talking about the small plastic funnel shaped thing hanging off the battery-side of the oil tank, right? Best option is an upgraded Weber oil tank with an improved built-in cyclone and rollover tank. Then eliminate the emissions, oil vapor recirc hose going back to the airbox... which has caused all your oil ingestion problems as it sucks foamed oil back through this hose into the airbox and into the turbo then through the IC and into the intake. This is a big mess.

    Whats the best way to clean all the slug out of the system?
    - It's a pain. Hardest is to get the IC out so you can thoroughly clean it out. You'll also need to pull all the hoses from the turbo to IC to intake and clean those. There is a high probability that the 2 MAP sensors in the intake tract, are now ruined due to oil sludge contamination. There is one on the IC-to-intake pipe and the other on the side of the intake manifold. They are both the same, don't mix the wire harness connects to them. You also need to pull the electronic throttle body (ETB) to open the larger opening beneath it and clean out the sludge in the intake manifold.

    After cleaning all this and putting it all back together. You need to change your oil. Maybe even twice to get all traces of moisture out of it.

    Hope your damaged water pump seal was the issue. Sure could be worse.

    Be sure to get your oil level set properly. See the properly oil level checking procedures in K447's sig link.

    Good luck... please let us know how it goes. Not many of us around these days.

    Cheers!

  4. #4
    Thanks for the help.
    Today I unstrapped the fuel tank, moved it to the side and pulled the Inter Cooler out through the front of the ski then flushed it. Then cleaned the oil cooler that was under the IC, it was full of slug but it seemed like the slug was in the coolant part. I'm not sure how the slug would have gotten into the coolant. I can see coolant passing through to the oil at the water pump but I'm not sure how oil could have gotten into the coolant.

    I pulled apart the oil tank and the baffle was bouncing around inside. I'm going to modify it and will have that fixed soon.

    The IC seemed clean and i checked the map sensors and they were clean. I looked at the ETB and it looked clean also. My guess is that the slug didnt make it past the turbo.

    Waiting on new oil filter and water pump seal and then I will be putting it back together to test it.

  5. #5
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Sounds like you know your way around the ski pretty well... nice. Getting that IC out is a bugger.

    Yeah... that loose oil tank baffle is pretty common. Make sure you pressure test it on the water passage side after fixing to make sure it doesn't leak into the oil chamber... another common problem. The new, upgraded Weber oil tank solves all these issues and adds an external rollover tank to help prevent oil ingestion. I would still remove the oil vapor recirc emission line that goes from the oil separator/cyclone back to the airbox. That line is how this engine ingests oil. Plumb the cyclone into a homemade catch-can instead.

    I'm thinking... your bad waterpump seal flooded the sump... which foamed the oil and caused it to expand in volume in the oil system. Back in the oil tank this foam got in the cyclone and got sucked back into the airbox/turbo-intake and made the big mess you found in your intake tract. But it might also be possible that the increased foamy oil volume increased pressure and that pressure pushed some foam back through the bad waterpump seal into the coolant system... and thus ended up clogging the coolant passages in your oil cooler.

    I'd clean everything out as best you can. Upon reassembly... use cheap oil (not the required expensive Mobil1 15w-50) and distilled water in the coolant system. Run it well to flush both systems then change out for good oil and proper coolant. I did this on my first engine rebuild and didn't have any further moisture-in-the-oil or oil-in-the-coolant issues when all said and done. You live in a warm place where you can put the ski in the water and run it? Or on the hose?

    Cheers!

  6. #6
    Ok I got the new water pump seal in from Weber and then it snowed on my project. For the oil tank, I put a large spring inside of it that will push down on the baffle and keep it down in place. I did plumb the cyclone into a catch-can. On the next warm day since I do not have a garage, I will put the ski back together and test it.


    I've never had a ski before but I have a feeling that this one is easy to work on because of the little use it has. The engine bay looks brand new.
    If this one works ok, may have to get second one. Maybe a supercharged!

  7. #7
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Yep... my lake just froze over today... little late this year. So yeah... all my projects are stuck in the shop till spring.

    I'm crossing my fingers for you... that your waterpump seal is the issue. Get it all cleaned really good. Next time you run it, don't be fooled by traces of remaining oil in the coolant or moisture in the oil. Try to get it run up to temps... in the water or on the hose. Then let it cool and change both coolant and oil again... and that should remove all last traces of cross contamination assuming the actual problem has been fixed.

    As far as easy to work on. When they run right... they are a blast. Only annoying part is trouble codes. Takes Polaris dealer-only Digitial Wrench software and a special MSX wire harness connector to read the codes. Hard to find any dealers that'll touch them anymore.

    Cheers!

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