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  1. #1
    JohnCiccarelli's Avatar
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    MSX-140 No Oil in any of the oil lines

    I am repairing a 2003 MSX and I noticed that there is no oil in any of the oil lines. There is oil in the tank. I just bought this ski and do not know the history. Any idea of what could cause this other then running it out of oil or the pump loosing the prime. I have never seen this before with any other ski.

    This ski has been sitting for over a year. Could the oil just have run back into the oil tank? Does anyone know if there is a check valve in the fuel filter or somewhere else? The crank on this is seized and it looks like this may have been caused by lack of oil. Any ideas?

    Does anyone know if there is an issue with premixing oil with the gas on this ski? I always do this anytime I have a motor apart. The manual clearly states not to do it. It says that there will be no lubrication to the bottom end. Would it cause any problems?

    I really do not have experience with these skis and I really need some advise.

    John
    Last edited by K447; 01-04-2013 at 10:13 AM.


  2. #2
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    You cannot run premix on the injected skis. The fuel mix never goes through the bottom end of the motor, so you would not get any oil down there. If you open the bleed screw on the oil pump, you should get oil flow from the tank to the pump. The lines probably need to be manually filled. Make sure the check valves where the oil lines connect to are working properly.

  3. #3
    JohnCiccarelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanP View Post
    You cannot run premix on the injected skis. The fuel mix never goes through the bottom end of the motor, so you would not get any oil down there. If you open the bleed screw on the oil pump, you should get oil flow from the tank to the pump. The lines probably need to be manually filled. Make sure the check valves where the oil lines connect to are working properly.
    I know that the oil will not make it to the bottom. What I am asking is if premixing will cause any problems.

    I know how to bleed this, but I am wondering why all of the lines are empty. Where are these check valves?

  4. #4
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    They are where the oil lines attach to the engine, coming from the pump

  5. #5
    JohnCiccarelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanP View Post
    They are where the oil lines attach to the engine, coming from the pump
    There are no check valves between the pump and the throttle bodies. Are they in the throttle bodies or could someone have removed them?

    I have the Shop Manual and looked at the part breakdown and it does not show the details anywhere.

  6. #6
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    ITs the fitting where it attaches to the throttle bodies. It should hold pressure up to about 3 PSI and then release

  7. #7
    JohnCiccarelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanP View Post
    ITs the fitting where it attaches to the throttle bodies. It should hold pressure up to about 3 PSI and then release
    Thanks, I will test them, I can't believe that all 3 are bad.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCiccarelli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BryanP View Post
    You cannot run premix on the injected skis. The fuel mix never goes through the bottom end of the motor, so you would not get any oil down there. If you open the bleed screw on the oil pump, you should get oil flow from the tank to the pump. The lines probably need to be manually filled. Make sure the check valves where the oil lines connect to are working properly.
    I know that the oil will not make it to the bottom. What I am asking is if premixing will cause any problems.

    I know how to bleed this, but I am wondering why all of the lines are empty. Where are these check valves?
    The fuel injectors are not intended to spray pre-mixed fuel plus oil. I suspect part of the reason for the Polaris warning is to avoid any suggestion that oil in the fuel is of any help whatsoever.

    I have seen comments from others that the oil displaces some fuel and can push the engine leaner than the EMM calibration intended.

    Since the oil will not lubricate the engine bottom end and probably not even help the piston rings slide on the cylinder walls, why would you want to add oil to a Ficht fuel tank?
    Last edited by K447; 01-04-2013 at 10:12 AM.

  9. #9
    JohnCiccarelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCiccarelli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BryanP View Post
    You cannot run premix on the injected skis. The fuel mix never goes through the bottom end of the motor, so you would not get any oil down there. If you open the bleed screw on the oil pump, you should get oil flow from the tank to the pump. The lines probably need to be manually filled. Make sure the check valves where the oil lines connect to are working properly.
    I know that the oil will not make it to the bottom. What I am asking is if premixing will cause any problems.

    I know how to bleed this, but I am wondering why all of the lines are empty. Where are these check valves?
    The fuel injectors are not intended to spray pre-mixed fuel plus oil. I suspect part of the reason for the Polaris warning is to avoid any suggestion that oil in the fuel is of any help whatsoever.

    I have seem comments from others that the oil displaces some fuel and can push the engine leaner than the EMM calibration intended.

    Since the oil will not lubricate the engine bottom end and probably not even help the piston rings slide on the cylinder walls, why would you want to add oil to a Ficht fuel tank?
    This does make sense. I guess I wont do it. I have done this with several SeaDoo 951 DI motors and never had any issues.

    Back to my other question. What could cause all of the oil lines to have no oil in them? Could running it out of oil cause this or would the pump just stop pumping when the oil tank runs dry leaving oil in the lines? This is just really strange to me. I have had had many skis apart and the oil lines always had oil in them.

  10. #10
    JohnCiccarelli's Avatar
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    I tried pumping oil through each of the lines and there was a lot of resistance. I then blew all three check valves out with carb cleaned and they cleared and now they all seem to work fine. After this I tested all three with a pop-off tester and they all held at least 3psi. Now I filled everything with oil and ran the pump with a drill. Everything pumps fine. The last step will be to wait and see if the lines stay full. I think the all 3 of the check valves were stuck. I'm not sure what would cause this. Any thoughts?

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