02-04-2013, 09:44 PM #1
2004 Polaris MSX 150 turbo ---- No throttle response
Now im diagnosing... started with electronic throttle body and have not been able to go any further cause i can not get the butterfly to open more then a 1/4 inch.
when i first pulled the tube off top i could get the throttle boddy to open all the way but it would not hold at all it would immediately close and it would not move anymore. now i can not even get it to open past 1/8-1/4 inch
i have been reading alot of yal's posts and have tried to do the ETB relearn. but not sure if its working or not. I can hear the ETB humming. when its makeing the noise i can not push the butterfly. when there is not power i can push it but it does take some pressure. is that normal? also when i follow the re-learn procedure it only moves the throttle plate about an 1/8th inch or so back and forth. when i push the throttle lever it will move about a 1/4 inch with the throttle lever then the butterfly will drop down to the 0 point the remainder of the throttle lever push till the very end and sometimes it will move a little bit at the very end of the throttle.. is this the tps? ppu? any ideas? i opened throttle body carfully to make sure there is no corosion and it all seemed fine very clean. check engine light and red lights flash the whole time its in water and i have no throttle response.
sorry if im rambling but i really want to get this thing goin. sounds like you guys really like this ski when they are running and i want to join yal on the enjoyment.
Last edited by natefarish; 02-26-2013 at 04:08 PM.
02-04-2013, 09:54 PM #2
now that i think about it actually the check engine light and red light were on the whole time i think... not sure if that helps
02-05-2013, 01:10 PM #3
Welcome to GreenHulk!
Sorry about your troubles... but glad to hear your combing through the tons of good info here on the forums about the unique Weber-powered, MSX110/150 beast.
With your new-to-you ski... make sure you are checking it over real well to check all the known/common issues.
Start by reading the knowledge bank put together here: http://polarispwcknowledge.shorturl....10-and-msx-150
Be sure to check for:
- proper oil level (see link for proper checking technique)
- good compression (130#-145# and even)
- signs of water/coolant in the oil (foamy, sludge... usually found on dipstick... couple common causes)
- signs of oil ingestion in the intake tract (hoses from turbo to IC to intake)... gotta be clean
- stuck wastegate on turbo (causes overboost)
Those are the big ones off the top of my head. As for your check engine/flashing light... that's a real thorn for us. It takes Polaris dealer-only Digital Wrench software and a special PWC connector for the codes to be read. But thankfully... we can often narrow down the issue because the ECU rev limits to certain RPMs for certain issues.
When you had it in the water and trying to go... what was you max RPMs you could reach? Definitely sounds like your in some sort of limp mode... with RPMs being limited.
Last edited by K447; 02-05-2013 at 01:32 PM. Reason: URL correction
02-05-2013, 02:50 PM #4
when i first put it in water im not sure of the RPM's like i said only went about 100ft then lost all throttle. Felt like there was no turbo just like in a car but i think the turbo meter had a couple bars lit up, not positive tho.
when i took the metal hose off that comes off the top of the ETB and connects to what i think is the IC there was some milky oil. Does this mean i need to pull entire intake system and clean it all out?
when i check the dip stick after sitting oil does not even register but when i start it and then kill it pull dip stick wipe it off then check oil again it registers almost all the way up to the full line (i read on here that thats too much?) which reading is acurate? after letting it sit or after idleing?
Coolant level is at the bottom line so i will fill it back up.
My biggest question is about the ETB. when i do a relearn it sweeps it but only opens about a 1/4inch. then when i wake the ecu back up if i squezze the throttle fast it will open all the way up then slam shut. if i squeez it slow it will open up about a 1/4inch then slam shut in the same about of time (about half a second)
should throttle body open and close as i squeez the throttle or is it normal to slam shut and then be non responsive till the humming stops and i wake the ecu back up?
02-05-2013, 04:47 PM #5
Also now there in not milky oil but there is a little oil moving through from what i think is the intercooler down to the etb. Is that normal?
02-06-2013, 04:12 AM #6
Okay... 1 thing at a time.
1. Checking oil level proper way: Level ski, cold engine, start it, idle it for 30 secs, turn it off (won't hurt it for this short of time out of the water to run on cold engine). Pull dipstick, wipe, insert but do NOT screw in the cap, pull, read.
Maintain the oil level at anywhere from just touching on the stick up to the Add Oil mark. Any higher than this will be over filled. Yours sounds way overfilled.
2. Oil ingestion: Very likely, your overfilled oil level caused oil ingestion (serious known issue). There should be NO oily sludge, foamy gunk, etc anywhere in the intake tract. Intake tract is: Airbox, turbo compressor, hose from turbo to intercooler (that big metal box looking thing at the very front of the engine), inside the intercooler, hose/pipe from intercooler to intake manifold, inside the intake manifold.
Sounds like your ski experienced oil ingestion. This is why it won't run right. The ski is in a limp mode. It very likely ruined the two MAP sensors (one on hard IC-to-intake pipe, one on side of intake manifold) on the intake tract. Many report cleaning them after oil exposure doesn't work. Without proper working sensors... ECU is blind and goes into limp. You may need new sensors.
You will need to clean the entire intake tract. The hardest part is removing the IC for a thorough washing/rinsing. Search the forums here on more details about this. Pretty common unfortunately... seems a common reason people sell the skis... not being able to get them to run right.
After cleaning, remove the long hose from the oil separator cyclone (battery side of oil tank) to the airbox. This is where the oily vapors and gunk get from oil system to the intake. Rig up a makeshift oil catch can and plumb the cyclone into that.
3. ETB relearn sweeping: realistically, I wouldn't worry about it until all the above things are addressed. Your ski is definitely in a limp mode.
P.S. Take a look at the link I gave above. It has links to threads with great info on all these issues.
Last edited by K447; 02-06-2013 at 08:43 AM.
02-06-2013, 08:45 AM #7
Yep. Sounds like i got my work cut out for me this weekend. Where can i get map sensors? I only found 1 on ebay. Are they both the same?
02-06-2013, 08:52 AM #8
Whats the best thing to clean it with? Im assumeing it would take quite a few cans of carb cleaner. Can i pour gas in inter cooler to clean oil out of that? Hopefully this will get this thing running.
02-06-2013, 10:15 AM #9
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Milwaukee WI
02-06-2013, 01:12 PM #10
The two MAP sensors are identical. They are exactly the same part as the MAP used in the '06 Chevy Cobalt SS... which cost around $45 each
GM 90423637 (use gmpartsdirect.com)
Both MAPs also have a built-in air temp sensor filament in them. On the MSX150, only the MAP on the hard pipe (IC-to-intake) uses this air temp sensor part of the MAP (in addition to the pressure sensor). That is why that wiring connector has 4 wires, while the one on the side of the intake manifold has only 3. Don't mix up the connectors. It's this sensitive air temp filament that gets damaged by oil. And the bad reading for incoming air temps is what messes up the ECU. Some folks have successfully swapped the 2 MAPs... say the one in the hard pipe was gunked bad and messed up the air temp sensor... but the one in the intake manifold wasn't... it might work in a situation like this to swap them (and clean them gently with sensor safe carb cleaner or warm soapy water). You might try cleaning/swapping them first... before you buy new ones. Your call.
As for cleaning out the oily gunk in the intake tract... some have used carb cleaners, a little gasoline or kerosene... just dry it out well. I prefer good old hot soapy water. Easy to get the hoses and hard pipes in a bucket. Once you get the IC out... it's easy to flush and rinse. Carefully pull the electronic throttle body off the intake manifold then cleanup any gunk in there through the hole. I'd use carb clean there... would dry better. As for the turbo compressor scroll... just carefully wipe it out with a clean cloth as far as you can reach. There shouldn't be much in there to worry about.
Don't forget to eliminate the recirc emissions hose I mentioned in previous post. Setup an oil catch can. Otherwise this could happen again. And get your oil level down to the correct level too.
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