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  1. #1
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Strike two. MSX 150 - replacement block - Nikasil crack

    Ah... the adventure continues. My project MSX 150... is never ending.

    Read the back-story about the purchase and initial diagnosis here: http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176246
    Read about "Strike 1", the attempted low compression failed fix here: http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184480


    So I've fully disassembled my Weber engine. My first attempt to fix the engine, last year, was only a partial tear-down. I had pulled the engine out of the ski... but only popped off the head and sump so I could swap out the pistons... thinking the old rings were fried. That didn't work... so here I am on my 2nd engine pull... this time doing a complete tear-down and proper examination of everything as I really should have done the first time!

    So I diagnosed my original aluminum, open deck block as warped... out of spec. Which would explain my low compression even on new pistons. So I bought a replacement block. It was sold by a parting-out shop. I was happy to find just a block, since I can't afford nor need a full short block. I specifically asked the seller about the compression #'s on this block and was told it was 130# in both at the time of disassembly. That sounded good to me... cause I would kill for 130# compression... haha. So I bought it.

    When I first got the replacement block... it looked good all over... except a small patch of what looked like piston ring rust on the rear side of the pto cylinder. I assumed it was from this ski sitting a long time. The spot was in the middle of the cylinder... and this engine had 130# compression... so I didn't think much of it. I was very much hoping that it would cleanup when I gave the cylinder a quick deglaze.

    Well... it didn't. After my deglaze today... it now more clearly appears to be a crack and possible failing in the Nikasil. Strike 2. I can catch my fingernail on it... it's not smooth. Bummer. Well I do know... I'm not about to reassemble with this block and cross my fingers. The gaskets wasted on another failed attempt are too pricey... I learned that lesson already.

    So... options:

    > Randy sells steel sleeves... so I could get a bore and sleeve done.

    > Or I could go the Nikasil replating route.

    Which would you do? Why?

    Lastly... any good recommendations on shops to do either service?

    Cheers!


  2. #2
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    Check with Randy, but I think the bore and sleeve idea would be the way to go. Hell, go big bore on it, he sells the stuff to do that too

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Since you are so deep into the engine anyways, check with Precision regarding an ECU flash upgrade, if not a turbo upgrade. His contact details are in my Parts Sources link from my signature.

    He is also very knowledgeable regarding alternate engine sources, including snow mobile Weber blocks.

  4. #4
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Thanks Bryan. I'm in touch with Randy and he's a wealth of great info and advice.

    Thanks K447. Your links lead me to him last year. I already have Precision's Stage2 ECU reflash... and I've sent off an email to Martin to inquire about any blocks he may currently have available.

    Looks like sleeving is $300 for a pair of sleeves and $250-ish for putting them in... so $550 range (plus shipping both ways).

    Whereas re-plating is in the $450 range (plus shipping both ways).

    I came across an older thread where the member recalls a re-plating shop telling him that their shop has not had good long term success with replating the early Polaris MSX blocks. Something about those early gen Weber blocks... possible metal alloys used or whatnot. So that has me wondering if re-nik is the best option.

    Appreciate the opinions!

    Cheers!

  5. #5
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    I would see what Randy suggests, and go with his advice. I think for long term, sleeving it might be the best option.

  6. #6
    Kosh's Avatar
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    If you sleeve it you will know it is going to work. Nickasil on the other hand will have you wondering late at night.

    Not sure what the deal was in the USA but when Polaris Australia did warranty repairs on cylinder wall failure they sleeved the blocks. Darton was the supplier to them.

  7. #7

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    I personally prefer sleeving for recreational engines, as it's "user friendly".
    If you are building a race boat, or after high performance, then Nicasil is the way to go as it wears well, has less friction, and it transfers heat slightly better.

    If you Nicasil, be prepared to pay extra for the water pump bearings, and they are a *** to remove.
    http://www.weberpower.com/parts-webe...aring-kit.html
    I charge $40.00 to remove & install new ones.

    I will check pricing this week on both resleeve & Nicasil.
    I have never had a problem with re-plating a MSX block, but others may have experienced problems.

    The 800cc big bor kit is a good option, as it's extremely reliable but remember.. The larger the bore, the higher octane fuel is required.
    The Weber barely survives on "pump gas" as it really needs 98 Octane fuel, and adding piston area adds to the problem of WOT throttle runs.

    *I am working on a new website & shopping cart*
    Things will be changing for the next few months, so if you notice any problems, broken links, or simply have suggestions?
    Contact me directly, as I dont check here every day! [email protected]

    Thanks,
    Randy

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber Guy View Post
    ... The Weber barely survives on "pump gas" as it really needs 98 Octane fuel...
    I am thinking he meant to say 89 octane gasoline

  9. #9
    I just recently had mine renikasiled at the tune of $340.00. That was before I started really researching
    on the GreenHulk. If Randy at Weber recomends sleeving at $40.00 or $80.00 for 2 it seems like a no brainer. (Randy has been a great wealth of info. and has not stired me wrong) Good luck, I hope your build goes better than mine! Hopefully the 3rd time is a charm.

  10. #10

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    No, I really meant 96-98 Octane fule.. LOL..

    Originally Posted by Weber Guy
    ... The Weber barely survives on "pump gas" as it really needs 98 Octane fuel...
    I am thinking he meant to say 89 octane gasoline

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