03-02-2013, 06:57 PM #1
I need help MSX 110 polaris Oil slick in coolant PROBLEMS.
Ok I think I may have made my first bad purchase, its seems to run fine the guy changed the coolant to green antifreeze and I think I got took, so, I did check the oil the oil looked to have antifreeze in it but since the Mobil1 15w 50 is tinted a light green color it was hard to tell, it was overfilled badly for one, so I started to drain it out this is what it looked like, as I was starting to flush the system today, now there is an oil slick in the coolant tank, so I started pulling the top intercooler and the was alittle water in it and up the intake track and some sitting down on the throttle body and that greenish oil all in it and the hose elbows, I have been looking and reading but can not seem to get my answers, do I pull the oil cooler? what causes the oil and coolant to mix? what do I need to check?
03-02-2013, 07:00 PM #2
03-02-2013, 09:59 PM #3
Sorry for your troubles.
Check out the MSX 110/150 knowledge bank here... really good topics and info.
Let me ask some specific questions.
What history do you know of the ski?
Was it ever rolled over?
So when you check the oil on the dipstick, it's high... and foamy? Was it foamy before you ran the engine?
How are you draining the oil... suctioning out of the oil tank?
See the link above for proper oil level checking procedure.
So... was there oil in the coolant when you bought it? Or only after you ran it a bit did you notice it?
Is the coolant level dropping as you run it?
Are you running the ski on the hose? Or dry? If on the hose... we would need to consider possible raw water contamination in the oil.
Have you done a compression test? I would start there. Gotta know if you have maybe a blown headgasket... that would be one possible crossing point for oil and coolant. You're looking for 125#-140# compression.
Another crossing point is the oil cooler (under the intercooler... lower front of engine). Coolant enter/exits through the large end-cap looking things on the round cooler. The oil plumbs in/out through smaller hose connections on the underside of the cooler. It's possible to have a leak in there. You could remove it, clean it and pressurize the oil lines to see if it leaks.
Another crossing point for oil/coolant is the waterpump. A bad waterpump shaft seal will allow coolant to leak into the sump.
Another crossing point is the turbo. The turbo center cartridge is both oil lubed and coolant cooled. A blown center section could cross contaminate. *gently* grip the turbo shaft through the intake side and see if there is any shaft wiggle/play. A really wobbly shaft would be a blown turbo. This would also likely put oil into the intake tract also... as well as into the exhaust (smoking).
If it's raw water getting into the oil... the likely culprit is the stock oil tank. These are know to leak between the raw water chamber around the outside of the oil tank and the oil chamber in the middle. There are a few good threads in the link above about pressure testing the oil tank to ensure no leaks. Also... the oil baffle in the bottom of the oil chamber in the tank is known to work loose. This rattles around in there and whips up the oil.
Water in your intake... that's probably a leaking intercooler. The intercooler uses raw water to cool the intake air. A leak in there would put water in your intake. Pull the intercooler... clean it... and pressure test either the air side... or the water side and check for leaks.
After these checks... next I'd work on getting everything clean. Gotta get the intake tract (airbox, turbo compressor side, turbo to intercooler hose, intercooler, intercooler to intake hose/pipe and intake manifold) clean, oil gunk free and dry. Get the oil level set proper. The work on figuring out what is happening. What's contaminating what. Good luck!
03-03-2013, 01:33 AM #4
No History, 41 hours, Not foamy/air bubbles when sitting only when starting, but I would not call it foamy just alot on air bubbles in the oil, The oil level was above a quarter inch above max, oil just looks as if it has antefreeze in it, Compression is 135 over 135, not running on a hose just short 10 second runs then rest for cooling but as cold as it is here it barly got warm, pulled intercooler already thats how i found the little bit of water on the air track side and up and down to the throttle body I beleive, I will check turbo for play, Pull oil cooler and do a 15 psi leak test and on the intercooler as well, i hope its those and not the turbo or even the water pump, I dont even know where the water pump is, probobly under the motor LOL,I have the service manual, I am dreading this, I had one of these befor but it had no issues and thought i was getting a deal HA lol, Does any place just sell the oil tank update and not that kit, I can fabricate all those parts, just need the tank, but guess I will test it to,Thank you for your help on this I will need it as the service manual is only good for pictures LOL.
03-03-2013, 07:04 PM #5
Ok well I did a leak presure test on the intercooler had like 6 hose clamps and hose setup but worked good, it held 15 PSI for 30 minutes with about 1/8 of 1 PSI Drop, so hardly any drop probobly from my set up, pulled oil cooler,alittle white oil film on on each side of oil cooler, pressure test at 15 and same results as above, cleaned both and flushed with gas, now back on, main fluid coolant that drained looked good, did notice all was green but in res, tank had green on top and pink on bottom with that 1/8 " oil slick on top, pulled tank and cleaned, pressure test empty, leaks out cap, pulled cap and used hand to cover res. coolant tank, pumped up to 10 psi befor other hand could not pump no more, droped 1 psi in 5 minutes so dont know if was leaking down from my hand or not so have to figure out another way to do this and not pulling that res tank again, LOL, very little play at turbo, but alittle oil resadue on bottom of Plastic air intake box, so maybe due to to much oil may have caused all the oil I see in the air Track, So can mixing the 2 pink and green coolant cause that oil slick? checked oil today that I pulled and put some in a cup, now that its not bubbly it looks better, OH GOD PLEASE DONT Be THE WATER PUMP, LOL but thinking maybe still turbo, its hard to tell, can I remove the turbo in the hull?
03-03-2013, 10:05 PM #6
Glad your intercooler and oil cooler pressured tested okay. They sound in good shape... and now clean.
Your compression is good. Wish mine was that good.
I've never heard of mixing pink/green anti-freeze causing any kind of bad reaction or oil slick. The pink stuff is stock... but others have used the green stuff without trouble. I'd just drain it real good and fill it with with new 50/50 stuff. I used pink Mopar coolant I had... after flushing mine with distilled.
Your pressurizing the coolant circuit sounded like it's pretty tight. 1psi drop in 5 minutes... with your hand sealing the top of the reserviour jug... sounds good to me.
If your turbo has just a little shaft play... it sounds fine. If it was blown... you'd know it. It would smoke badly as oil from the center cartridge under pressure gets into the exhaust side of the turbo and burns.
That oil you detect in the airbox... and intake (center) of turbo compressor... is due to the oil vapor recovery emissions recirc hose that comes from the oil seperator cyclone (battery side of oil tank) to the airbox. This line is meant to recycle oil vapors from the oil tank back into the intake to be burned. But what happens is anytime the oil is overfilled, get water/coolant in it, or even a loose oil tank baffle... the oil foams up real bad expanding in volume. This oily foam floods out of the oil tank into the oil seperator cyclone but can't be seperated back to oil/air easily... so it just get sucked back through the forementioned hose into the intake system... through the turbo, intercooler, fouling the 2 MAP sensors, into the intake. The fouled sensors give bad inputs to the ECU and it goes into limp mode. This is very common with too much oil and when the ski rolls over. so clean it all really good and eliminate that hose. Plumb the oil separator into a vented oil catch can. Or upgrade to the new upgraded oil tank with rollover tank. It has a better designed internal cyclone in it... but still eliminate the recirc hose. Hard to say if your MAP sensors are fouled. I think I'd worry about solving the water/coolant in the oil (or vise versa) issue first.
You can buy just the new updated oil tank and rollover tank from Randy at WeberPower... instead of buying the whole kit. I did... and I fabricated my own mount and hoses as needed. If you do this... you need to buy a single banjo stack bolt to replace the double stack banjo bolt that feeds oil from the side of the head. 1 line goes to turbo... gotta have this one... the 2nd line goes to the stock oil tank. The new oil tank doesn't use this oil feel line so you eliminate it... and thus need a new single stack banjo bolt to replace the original double to keep only the turbo oil feed line.
The waterpump is on the front of the engine, exhaust side. Gotta pull IC and oil cooler and thier bracket to get to it. You can pull the top cover off the pump with it in the hull... but not sure what good that would do ya. If your waterpump shaft seal is leaking into the gears and sump behind it... I'm pretty sure you have to pull the engine out of the ski to disassemble the front to get deep enough to get it. So, yeah... hope that's not your issue.
And to get the turbo/exhaust manifold off... you have to pretty much go through all the motions of pulling the engine... cause you got to lift the engine a tad (still in the hull), then twist the engine so the exhaust is facing more toward the rear so you have the clearance to pull the whole assembly off the exhaust studs that stick out of the head. It won't come off with the engine in place in the mounts.
03-04-2013, 12:03 AM #7
Ok thank you so very much, I did contact Weberpower, and seen if I can buy just the Tank as I am a Fabricater by trade as well and he said they sell the kit only, the hundred and something I could afford but not the $400+ Since the Oil tank is water cooled and does not foam, I really have to wait on that, cleaning main top intake sensor that can of cleaner is not cheap is there any othe sensors I need to clean?, have some extra Mobil 1 10w 30 Full Syn so opted to flush the system with that, I will eliminate that hose,I need to run it on the hose to get that oil circulated real good, how long with that weight of oil do you think 5 Min maybe and what hose do I connect a valve to for the garden hose?, I will then change filters and put in the right oil 15w 50 syn.
03-04-2013, 09:21 AM #8
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
If you want to run the engine for more than a couple of minutes on the garden hose, you should remove the jet pump and slide the drive shaft away from the spider coupler. The seals in the through-hull bearing and inside the jet pump are water cooled when the hull is in the water. On land those seals can overheat with extended engine run times.
Disconnecting the drive shaft allows it to remain stationary while the engine runs.
03-04-2013, 11:10 AM #9
You can test the stock oil tank. Pressurize the water camber and see if it holds. If it doesn't than it's leaking into the oil chamber... and will need replaced or you can attempt to fix it. There are a couple threads discussing this in that knowledge bank link I gave you above. It requires pressurizing the oil chamber and "popping" the sealed tank halfs aparts (warning- high pressure). Then cleaning the seal and putting in a new large o-ring for the tank.
But if your tank is not leaking... and the baffle in the bottom of the oil chamber doesn't rattle around... then it should be good to go.
The two MAP sensors (1 in the intercooler to intake tube and 1 on the front side of the intake) are the main victims of oil ingestion. Some folks have cleaned them... others didn't have any luck. worth a try. Don't cross the wire harness connectors for them or engine won't run right. These MAP sensors can be bought online through GM Parts Direct for about ~$45 each. Polaris charges way more.
For the next phase of your investigation where you're likely to contaminate more oil while tracking down the leaks... I would just run some cheap oil. It won't be in the engine long... nor have any real load put on it. Rotella T 15W-40 diesel oil sold in gallon jugs at WalMart is a good, affordable oil to use for this purpose. Once you get it all fixed and ready to put back in service. You'll want to change the oil back to the required full synthetic Mobil 15w-50... which is expensive stuff... plus a new oil filter.
Your gonna need to run the engine for at least 5 minutes or longer to get it good and up to temp. I agree with K447. To run on the hose that long, you need to pull the jet pump and slide back the driveshaft to disengage it from the coupler.
As for where to hook the garden hose. Sounds like you don't have a flush kit installed on your MSX. I don't either... they weren't stock. Pull the main water feed hose (battery side of pump tunnel, lower hose). It's the hose that goes beside the battery... has a small hose Teed off it going to the heat exchanger (under the intake manifold) and the main hose snaking directly to the intercooler. Pull this hose at the through-hull fitting. Buy a female hose adapter and clamp it on this hose...then connnect your garden hose to it. Now you'll have proper flowing water into the system. Note... you don't need full blast water pressure from your garden hose. Common house pressures of 55psi are higher than are needed... so just turn the hose on enough for a good flow... not full blast.
03-04-2013, 03:42 PM #10
Thanks guys so very much, when I tried to pressure test the coolant I did try one last time with the cap on yesterday and tightened it i guess alittle to much, as today I had that extra 10w 30 SYnthetic and when ahead and used it, tried to get the cap off and blam, broke the damn coolant tank plastic bracket and nipple for return, LOL really!!!!!! come on, so gave an offer for one, filled it up with coolant, used a map sensor cleaner on top sensor IC put it back together and started it she reved with reverse to what seemed to high scared the crud out of me an tried to push stop button and she starts to cut of but have to hold it in till it dies or it reves back up, after a few more starts she started and ideled good cut off after15 sec she got really warm but still could touch head but would burn my hand on the exaust, oil looked good so did coolant, so I will wait for the tank, and just take it to the lake, I will pull that other sensor and clean it, so far so good, well see.i will do the pressure test on the oil tank as well
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