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  1. #1

    2002 Polaris Virage Question - 700cc two cylinder carburetor

    I own a 2002 Virage. It has a red 700 engine, carbureted (single). I dont know anything else about it, but I can try to answer questions about it if needed.

    I have had it into the shop twice for that same issue, and both times the diagnosis is $1,000.

    The symptoms are that I will be riding along, and suddenly the engine will sputter out and stall. Will not restart. It has no spark.
    Last time this happened the shop replaced the CDI and the stator.

    I am now being told the same thing happened and I need another CDI and stator.

    Is this a common problem with polaris jetski's. How reasonable is it that the same parts would fail after only 3 summers of service? Do you know if there is a common cause for this, and lastly, is there a fix or aftermarket upgrade available to remedy this issue?

    Thanks
    Last edited by K447; 04-26-2013 at 06:02 PM.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Hulk

    It is not common at all for the CDI and stator to fail. In fact, the Gen III ignition system, which is what your Virage has, is generally quite reliable.

    Are you able to work on the machine yourself?

    There are some diagnostics and tests that can be done to narrow down the failure, and perhaps also identify the cause(s).

    Do you have the invoices from each repair? Can you list what items the invoice says were actually replaced?

  3. #3

    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Welcome to the Hulk

    It is not common at all for the CDI and stator to fail. In fact, the Gen III ignition system, which is what your Virage has, is generally quite reliable.

    Are you able to work on the machine yourself?

    There are some diagnostics and tests that can be done to narrow down the failure, and perhaps also identify the cause(s).

    Do you have the invoices from each repair? Can you list what items the invoice says were actually replaced?
    Yes to all the above...
    The part numbers are:
    Stator: 4010172
    CDI: 4010803 is the # on the Polaris box, however the cdi itself is hand marked with 4010568.

    Was riding along and it started to sputter out slightly, slowed to about 50% power then died. No restart.
    Last edited by K447; 04-27-2013 at 03:52 PM.

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd27853 View Post
    Yes to all the above...
    The part numbers are:
    Stator: 4010172
    CDI: 4010803 is the # on the Polaris box, however the cdi itself is hand marked with 4010568.

    Was riding along and it started to sputter out slightly, slowed to about 50% power then died. No restart.
    Both those CDI parts numbers are valid, one is the update/substitute for the other.

    Something must be killing the ignition system electronics.

    Did the shop give you back the removed/old parts?

    Normally I would expect either the CDI or the stator to fail, not both together. And certainly not both, TWO times.

    The best approach may be to go right to basics. Assume nothing is correct or good. Remove, inspect, check, confirm.

    Start with removing both ends of BOTH battery cables. Examine the cables themselves for any signs of damage, loose ends, corrosion, etc. If there is tape wrapped around something, remove it to inspect.

    Remove the bolt and thoroughly clean the engine ground point on the engine. You want 100% clean metal to clean metal. Clean the bolt threads with a die and use a tap to clean the threads inside the hole.

    Also clean and inspect the thin red cable that feeds the electrical box, starting from the terminal on the start solenoid.

    Inside the electrical box, there should be zero evidence of moisture and zero corrosion. There should be a thin film of dielectric grease smeared over the wire connections and terminal board.

    The Virage uses a special version of the LR module known as the LR Start/Stop module. You can find details for bypassing this module in my signature links. Bypass it for testing purposes.

    Let's not assume the current CDI and/or stator are actually bad, until we can verify.

    With the LR Start/Stop module bypassed, and the CDI hooked up properly, do you now have spark?

    Note: The two cylinder engine uses a 'wasted spark' system whereby both spark plugs fire together, every time either cylinder needs spark. Make sure both spark plugs are connected to the plug wires and both spark plugs are grounded to the engine. If only one spark plug wire is hooked up, the spark plug will not fire properly.

    Important: The battery voltage MUST stay above 10.6 volts while the engine is cranking, or you will NOT have spark. Be very sure the battery is strong. Measure the battery voltage with a proper multi-meter while cranking the engine. You want the voltage to stay well above 10.6 volts.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Both those CDI parts numbers are valid, one is the update/substitute for the other.

    Something must be killing the ignition system electronics.

    Did the shop give you back the removed/old parts?

    Normally I would expect either the CDI or the stator to fail, not both together. And certainly not both, TWO times.

    The best approach may be to go right to basics. Assume nothing is correct or good. Remove, inspect, check, confirm.

    Start with removing both ends of BOTH battery cables. Examine the cables themselves for any signs of damage, loose ends, corrosion, etc. If there is tape wrapped around something, remove it to inspect.

    Remove the bolt and thoroughly clean the engine ground point on the engine. You want 100% clean metal to clean metal. Clean the bolt threads with a die and use a tap to clean the threads inside the hole.

    Also clean and inspect the thin red cable that feeds the electrical box, starting from the terminal on the start solenoid.

    Inside the electrical box, there should be zero evidence of moisture and zero corrosion. There should be a thin film of dielectric grease smeared over the wire connections and terminal board.

    The Virage uses a special version of the LR module known as the LR Start/Stop module. You can find details for bypassing this module in my signature links. Bypass it for testing purposes.

    Let's not assume the current CDI and/or stator are actually bad, until we can verify.

    With the LR Start/Stop module bypassed, and the CDI hooked up properly, do you now have spark?

    Note: The two cylinder engine uses a 'wasted spark' system whereby both spark plugs fire together, every time either cylinder needs spark. Make sure both spark plugs are connected to the plug wires and both spark plugs are grounded to the engine. If only one spark plug wire is hooked up, the spark plug will not fire properly.

    Important: The battery voltage MUST stay above 10.6 volts while the engine is cranking, or you will NOT have spark. Be very sure the battery is strong. Measure the battery voltage with a proper multi-meter while cranking the engine. You want the voltage to stay well above 10.6 volts.
    Yes I do have the old parts. Also I did follow the link in your signature to try to find the proceedure for bypassing the LR, but the link seemed to 'dead end'. Not sure if maybe I was not looking in the right spot. Would you be willing to post the direct link here?

    I will start following your instructions and get things cleaned up. It needs it anyway. Will report back in a few.
    Thanks again for all the help.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow Variations of the LR-505 Start/Stop module bypass

    Hmmm, does your LR-505 module have flat tab wire connections, and is located inside the electrical box?

    Here are a few variations of the LR-505 Start/Stop module bypass;

    Bypassing the LR-505 Start/Stop module (test lanyard out crank, lanyard in no-crank)

    Bypassing LR-505 module on carburetor engine with combined Start/Stop button

    Simple bypass test for failed LR-505 module (4010304, 4010648 )

    Bypass LR-505 module to diagnose lanyard out crank, lanyard in no-crank condition
    Last edited by K447; 05-21-2016 at 10:40 AM.

  7. #7
    LR is located in same box as cdi, has spade connectors. I tried to by pass per your links however there are only 3 black/white wires. 2 go to the coil. when i disconnect the black/white that goes to the LR, and then push the start/stop, nothing happens, bilge pushed or not. When i disconnect the purple/white wire, nothing happens, bilge or not.

    Battery test good for volts. strange thing happened tho, i disconnected only the black/yellow wire from the LR, and held down the bilge button and got spark for a second, then nothing. I tried to clean it up a bit and hook the spark plug to a solid ground, and no spark, cranks though, lanyard in or out, and bilge pushed or not.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd27853 View Post
    LR is located in same box as cdi, has spade connectors. I tried to by pass per your links however there are only 3 black/white wires. 2 go to the coil. when i disconnect the black/white that goes to the LR, and then push the start/stop, nothing happens, bilge pushed or not. When i disconnect the purple/white wire, nothing happens, bilge or not.

    Battery test good for volts. strange thing happened tho, i disconnected only the black/yellow wire from the LR, and held down the bilge button and got spark for a second, then nothing. I tried to clean it up a bit and hook the spark plug to a solid ground, and no spark, cranks though, lanyard in or out, and bilge pushed or not.
    Do not confuse the LR module and the CDI module wires. The key is that several of the wires from the CDI ignition module do NOT connect to the terminal board.

    ALL of the wires from the LR module connect to the terminal board (if memory serves). The LR module does NOT connect to the ignition coil, for example.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Do not confuse the LR module and the CDI module wires. The key is that several of the wires from the CDI ignition module do NOT connect to the terminal board.

    ALL of the wires from the LR module connect to the terminal board (if memory serves). The LR module does NOT connect to the ignition coil, for example.
    Which end of the Black/white CDI wire connects to black to bypass the LR, the LR side or the wire, or the jet ski side of the wire (the one that runs out of the electronic box. You say to connect that end of the black white wire to black. The only black I see is ground. Is that correct?

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd27853 View Post
    Which end of the Black/white CDI wire connects to black to bypass the LR, the LR side of the wire, or the jet ski side of the wire (the one that runs out of the electronic box? You say to connect that end of the black/white wire to black.

    The only black I see is ground. Is that correct?
    Disconnect all the LR-505 module wires.

    Find the non-LR Black/White wire and move it to the Black terminal.
    Black is indeed ground.

    None of the CDI wires get moved or changed, only the Black/White wire gets moved (NOT the disconnected LR Black/White wire, the OTHER Black/White wire).

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