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  1. #1
    Tjdriver's Avatar
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    Rough starting and running

    I was able to get the fuel lines changed today on the Virage. I tried to get it running in the driveway, but it was being stubborn. So I took it to the boat ramp to fiddle with it. It would crank, start, then die after 1-2 sec of idling. After 5 or so minutes of this it started to idle for 5-10 sec before dieing. I took it for a run and it spit and sputtered alot! It ran around 30 mph but continuously spit and sputtered for 10 min or so.

    The longer it ran the better it got. I ran it 1.5 hours and it ran great after it's spitting and sputtering bout. 3 times I've run the ski since purchase and the same result each time.

    While I had it at the ramp I tried disco TPS, but no change.

    It has new plugs(correct #) and ethanol free gas with stabil in the tank.

    Any thoughts?

    Could the CPS be doing this?


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    It sounds like something needs to get really warmed up, and is not happy when cold.

    It appears to take a LONG time for the engine to run better, which suggests something that warms up slowly.

    Is the thermostat and bypass valve installed and working? Not that it should give the trouble you are describing, but the Ficht engines seem to prefer a stable operating temperature. My own Ficht engines start promptly even when cold and are happy and smooth running within a minute or so, from cold start. Warm start they are immediate.

    Possible items that warm up slowly;

    Ficht magneto stator
    Crank Position Sensor
    EMM itself
    Intake air temp sensor
    Exhaust temp sensor
    Wire harness and electrical connectors

    You can ohm check the sensors and the stator.

    A test you could try in the driveway. When cold, start engine briefly and confirm trouble is still present. Shut engine down, then use a hair dryer or similar to thoroughly warm the EMM. The EMM has a lot of mass so it will take some time to get it warm internally. Do not completely cook it, of course.

    Now start the engine and see if the symptoms have improved. If yes, the EMM is suspect.

    Did you check the voltage on White/Red wire with the engine running? It should be stable around 45 volts and not change much as the RPM varies. Anything much under 40 volts is not good.

  3. #3
    Tjdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    It sounds like something needs to get really warmed up, and is not happy when cold. Exactly what I was thinking.

    It appears to take a LONG time for the engine to run better, which suggests something that warms up slowly.

    Is the thermostat and bypass valve installed and working? Not that it should give the trouble you are describing, but the Ficht engines seem to prefer a stable operating temperature. My own Ficht engines start promptly even when cold and are happy and smooth running within a minute or so, from cold start. Warm start they are immediate.

    Possible items that warm up slowly;

    Ficht magneto stator
    Crank Position Sensor
    EMM itself
    Intake air temp sensor
    Exhaust temp sensor
    Wire harness and electrical connectors

    You can ohm check the sensors and the stator.

    A test you could try in the driveway. When cold, start engine briefly and confirm trouble is still present. Shut engine down, then use a hair dryer or similar to thoroughly warm the EMM. The EMM has a lot of mass so it will take some time to get it warm internally. Do not completely cook it, of course.

    Now start the engine and see if the symptoms have improved. If yes, the EMM is suspect.

    Did you check the voltage on White/Red wire with the engine running? It should be stable around 45 volts and not change much as the RPM varies. Anything much under 40 volts is not good.


    No I did not. I will check that today tho.

    I have a heat gun so I will try the EMM first. Then let it cool and try the sensors. I was really considering CPS might be the problem. If it works similar to my Jeep, It can tell the EMM to shut off fuel flow to the engine.

    Another thing I didn't mention. On yesterday's run, I had no flashing red lights or warning messages.

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Keep all the injectors plugged in for the injector voltage test. Find a connector with the White/Red wires. They are all interconnected and should have the same voltage.

    The TPS is also affected by engine heat. You said you swapped in another, but make sure the actual metal sockets for each pin are clean and provide a solid contact inside the connector.

    Bernie once reported a TPS wire harness connector which had bad wire crimps inside the socket, it would vibrate with the engine and give trouble until he re-did the wire end crimps. Just something to keep in mind; every electrical connector needs to internally provide solid connections. If you flex and move any wires and the symptoms change, there is something wrong.
    Last edited by K447; 05-12-2013 at 02:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Tjdriver's Avatar
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    I didn't change the TPS. I picked up another one, but didn't install it.

    As far as the vibrating connector, the ski vibrates all the time so why would it only do it on start up and not the entire time?

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjdriver View Post
    I didn't change the TPS. I picked up another one, but didn't install it.

    As far as the vibrating connector, the ski vibrates all the time so why would it only do it on start up and not the entire time?
    Sometimes an electrical connection will 'improve' as it warms up and the heat expands the connector materials.

    Changing the TPS would be the first thing I would try, IF the other TPS is known to be a good unit, or is new.

  7. #7
    Tjdriver's Avatar
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    The other TPS is a used unit. I haven't tried it yet. Is there anything special I need to do/pay attention to when swapping?

    If the connector is bad on the TPS, wouldn't the motor start and idle with it disconnected?

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjdriver View Post
    The other TPS is a used unit. I haven't tried it yet. Is there anything special I need to do/pay attention to when swapping?

    If the connector is bad on the TPS, wouldn't the motor start and idle with it disconnected?
    Depends on which pin is 'bad' at the TPS. Bad ground could create an extreme 'beyond WOT' signal, which the EMM may decode as no good for starting.

    Some Ficht engines will not start and idle without a good TPS signal. Not sure why, just happens for some EMM.

    When replacing a TPS, pay attention to how the existing spring coil is arranged and where the ends are hooked to. Make sure the spring gets installed correctly. It should provide a firm 'return to idle position' spring tension for the TPS shaft.

  9. #9
    Tjdriver's Avatar
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    I'll check the crimps and see what's up before I swap out the TPS.

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