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  1. #1

    Sugar Sands Sting 2006 boat with Weber MPE 750 turbo engine

    having trouble with my 2006 sugar sand sting jet boat, has the polaris msx150 (weber) 750 turbo. engine runs rough at idle, rpm is limited to 2500-3000 (sorry no tach.) it will rev up a bit from idle but thats it, acts like its in a safe mode. After getting it out of the water and investigating I have drained and replaced the fuel, fuel filter and new plugs. I also noticed the waste-gate was seized so i have removed the turbo to try to free-up the gate, and i also notice a little play in the turbine shaft side to side not sure if that's ok or not? any tech info on these engines would be greatly appreciated.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome

    Play in the turbocharger bearings is not a good thing.

    What is the history on this engine?

    When did it last run properly?

  3. #3
    not sure when it ran ok, just bought it and was told its been sitting a year or so

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidco View Post
    not sure when it ran ok, just bought it and was told its been sitting a year or so
    Start with the basics.

    Cylinder compression?

    Any fluids cross contamination of water in oil, oil in coolant, coolant in oil?

    Any oil or goop contamination of the intercooler interior?

  5. #5
    not sure on that i will check the intake side and check the compression as soon as i can i recently had minor surgery but not quite ready to be climbing in & out of eng. compartment thx for the input.

  6. #6
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    Welcome!

    Now you have a pretty unique boat! I have the joy of playing with these Webers in the MSX150... and I recently got a Sun n' Sea Rio... which is a variation of the older Tango model made by Sugar Sand. And I've dreamed up putting my Weber in that boat... but alas... I don't think it'll fit. Too deep (below crank axis) and tall.

    So I'd really like to see some pictures of your boat and the engine bay in particular.

    Since we can't read the trouble codes... without the expensive, Polaris dealer-only Digital Wrench software... we often use the RPM limiting function of the computer to point us at what might be wrong. Without a tach to see the actual RPMs... that's going to complicate things.

    For instance. If you had said your RPMs were limited to only 3400... then that would point towards the SIFB... which is a common electrical point of failure that makes the computer think it's in reverse and won't let you go faster than 3400 RPMs.

    But you mentioned a seized wastegate... which is not uncommon either. This will quickly trigger an overboost condition, throw a check engine light, and limit revs to 4700-4800 RPMs. This is a self clearing trouble code... if after the craft restarts and the computer doesn't detect overboost again. You mentioned pulling your turbo. That must be so easy on a boat. To do that on the MSX 150, you have to nearly pull the whole engine!

    Turbo shaft should spin freely... but not wobble much at all side-side/up-down. Excessive wobble... especially if the compressor wheel can contact the housing is bad. Even just a little wobble can mean the seals are blown and the turbo would likely leak oil into the exhaust (smoke) and into the intake.

    Here are some other things to check (cut-n-paste from another post)

    Cheers!

    --------------------------------
    > Compression should be 140# (+/- 15#)... low compression is bad of course, but could point to Nikasil plating failure in the cylinders which require bore and sleeve or replating. Can't just buy piston rings... gotta buy the whole piston to get new rings. Sadly, the first gen Weber blocks suffered from common Nikasil plating failure/flaking.

    > Make sure the oil on the cold dipstick is not all the way up at the MAX mark. This would be way overfilled on a cold engine. Proper oil level check procedure is with a cold engine... start and idle for 30 secs, turn off. Unscrew dipstick from oil tank, wipe, insert but do NOT screw in, pull and read. Oil should be between 'just barely on the stick' up to the MIN mark... but NO higher. The oil level will rise as the engine warms up. Too much oil is trouble and it commonly get blown into the cyclone and sucked back through the emissions recirc hose and into the intake tract. (see next item)

    > Pull the turbo-to-intercooler and intercooler-to-intake hoses and check for sludge/oily mess. This engine is known to ingest oil back into the intake tract through an oil vapor emissions recirc hose. This wrecks the 2 MAP sensors and fouls up the IC and causes lots of headaches and poor running. With hose off, shine light and peek into IC as best you can... see you detect any gunk in there.

    > Check oil when cold and after you run it. You don't want to see any evidence of water/coolant in the oil... milky or foamy looking. This can be caused by a few different issues... but it's bad either way. Could be a leaking oil tank letting water in... or water getting in the oil separator cyclone... or bad water pump seals... or headgasket... etc.

    > Check the turbo wastegate arm. Grab it and push downward... it should move about an inch and snap back shut (spring tension). These are notorious for seizing shut and are a PITA to get free again. Ski will overboost with seized wastegate and go into limp mode. Just make sure it's not seized.

    > FYI... engine requires Premium fuel (cause it's turbocharged) and expensive [Polaris Marine PS-4 Synthetic 15W-50] or [Mobil 1 15w-50 Synthetic] oil. Even better is ethanol-free premium gas.

    > FYI... OEM coolant is propylene glycol... the environmentally safe kind and pink in color. The more common green ethylene glycol can be used and the two mix okay... but Weber specifies propylene glycol. Name brands for PG coolant is Peak Sierra, Preston Low-Tox, or Amsoil coolant.

    > FYI... ECU is very sensitive to worn out and/or old batteries. If while cranking to start... the ECU doesn't see at least 10.5v... it won't power up the ignition system... and the ski won't start. Easy fix... recharge or replace the battery. AGM batteries are the best for this reason.

  7. #7
    hi thank you for the response, i will post pics soon. there is a fair amount of room in the eng. compartment. Do you know if the waste-gate overboost limp mode can be reset by disconnecting battery or another method ? It is a very nice little 14ft boat, just hope I get to use it.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Do you have access to electrical diagrams, service manual, etc?

    It might be possible to splice in a display from a watercraft to see the engine RPM, among other things.

    What dashboard indicators does it currently have? Did it originally have a tachometer?

  9. #9
    K447
    no i have no manual or diagrams. the dash has speedo, fuel, and 2 red lights i am going to try to ad pics for you, will see if i can get them in

    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #10
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    no i have no manual or diagrams. the dash has spedo, fuel, and 2 red lights i am going to try to ad pics for you, will see if i can get them inClick image for larger version. 

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