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Thread: My Opinion.

  1. #1

    My Opinion.

    First!!! I received a call from a forum member asking my opinion on 3M 4000 UV to seal the pump. I WILL NEVER USE IT AGAIN. It is very hard to remove ad it will be almost impossible to remove a pumpshoe without damaging the hull. I tried to remove my pumpshoe brackets 3 months ago and it started delaminating the carbon fiber reinforcement. IMO the best product to use is 3M 4200. Its strong enough, the trcik is to allow it to cure long enough.

    Some people will say 'WELL ONCE INSTALLED YOU NEVER NEED TO REMOVE IT AGAIN"...... Wrong!!!!!! We had report of shoes also cracking because of a manufacturers defect , one of the TX boys had a small accident where the shoe was damaged and needed replacement, so dont assume that once installed you will not need to remove it ever again!!

    Second!!!! About drilling holes in your pump shoe to eliminated the "BUCK" on the GPR. It may work only if you have a Buck which is cause by overstuffing the pump. Drilling holes in your pump shoe will seriously affect your holeshot and ability to ride in rought water since it will create cavitation which will eventually will results on pump vein housing, liner and impeller erosion due to cavitation. I did speak with Tim Judge about this about 4 weeks ago and they had been suing it for a while.

    I have been contemplating the idea of reliving pump pressure in a different way for quite a while but have not been able because of my busy schedule. My latest idea which I know will work but I have not implemented yet will consist of welding 1 or 2 aluminum bungs to the pump extension housing, using a 90 degree street elbow and attaching a Stainless Steel pressure relief valve that will probably open above 30 PSI. Determining the PSI at which the pump will be the most efficent at WOT will be the trick.

    Using this method will not affect your holeshot, will reduce pump tunnel pressure which will eliminate the "BUCK" and most likely eliminate the craking of the pump tunnel as well, we may or may not benefit from better top end numbers even if we dont have a buck since we can optimize pump impeller load at WOT.

    Here are pictures of the bung, street elbow and SS valve which has a 1/4 NPT .
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  2. #2
    Hydrotoys's Avatar
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    The 2" extention is thick enough. Why not just drill and tap it?

    edit: Have you TRIED welding anything to the pump extesion?

    I'm not entirely sure it's just aluminum. I think there is a very high zinc content to prevent salt water damage.

  3. #3
    One day at a time..... N8R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fercho View Post
    First!!! I received a call from a forum member asking my opinion on 3M 4000 UV to seal the pump. I WILL NEVER USE IT AGAIN. It is very hard to remove ad it will be almost impossible to remove a pumpshoe without damaging the hull. I tried to remove my pumpshoe brackets 3 months ago and it started delaminating the carbon fiber reinforcement. IMO the best product to use is 3M 4200. Its strong enough, the trcik is to allow it to cure long enough.

    Some people will say 'WELL ONCE INSTALLED YOU NEVER NEED TO REMOVE IT AGAIN"...... Wrong!!!!!! We had report of shoes also cracking because of a manufacturers defect , one of the TX boys had a small accident where the shoe was damaged and needed replacement, so dont assume that once installed you will not need to remove it ever again!!

    Second!!!! About drilling holes in your pump shoe to eliminated the "BUCK" on the GPR. It may work only if you have a Buck which is cause by overstuffing the pump. Drilling holes in your pump shoe will seriously affect your holeshot and ability to ride in rought water since it will create cavitation which will eventually will results on pump vein housing, liner and impeller erosion due to cavitation. I did speak with Tim Judge about this about 4 weeks ago and they had been suing it for a while.

    I have been contemplating the idea of reliving pump pressure in a different way for quite a while but have not been able because of my busy schedule. My latest idea which I know will work but I have not implemented yet will consist of welding 1 or 2 aluminum bungs to the pump extension housing, using a 90 degree street elbow and attaching a Stainless Steel pressure relief valve that will probably open above 30 PSI. Determining the PSI at which the pump will be the most efficent at WOT will be the trick.

    Using this method will not affect your holeshot, will reduce pump tunnel pressure which will eliminate the "BUCK" and most likely eliminate the craking of the pump tunnel as well, we may or may not benefit from better top end numbers even if we dont have a buck since we can optimize pump impeller load at WOT.

    Here are pictures of the bung, street elbow and SS valve which has a 1/4 NPT .
    keep the excellent work comming........ good to see you back

  4. #4
    Mr Bill's Avatar
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    I'v had some others recommend something similar. Tap at a 45 degree angle into the spacer. I think the pressure relief valve needs to open much higher though. I'm thinking more in the 60 - 75 lb range.

  5. #5
    Duke's Avatar
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    I was talking to Trager about this a month or so ago regarding his tripple and its deadly buck. To me the best place was going to be in the tunnel itself torwards the top but the spacer would probably be even better.

    Wished I had time to experiment but job and kid are to demanding. I am sure he would be willing to test this if you guys can come up with a proto. If his boat didn't have the buck it could be setup to run 86+! But at the same time have excellent holeshot and turning ability that his is not willing to give up.

    My .02

  6. #6
    Glad to see you gave my idea some more thought fercho. My original thread last september adressed this issue.. Do a search on (pump tunnel pressure pop off valve). I had originally wanted to install an overstuff pressure exit on the tunnel itself but have been hesitant to cut into such a sensitive area of the ski and attempt to laminate in to the tunnel an exit pipe of approximately 3/4 of an inch. I thought of using the 2 inch spacer to install the pipe. It may work but using smaller diameter pipe will be necessary due to the casting shape of the spacer, and multiple exits may be necessary to relieve enough pressure to see any benefit.
    My only other thought is, diverting the water at the spacer, which is immediately in front of the impeller, and at a 90 degree angle, could cause turbulence in front of the impeller, giving an unknown result. Putting the fitting on the pump tunnel, where the pressure is known to be high, and is farther away from the impeller, and installing it at a 45 degree angle to the tunnel, instead of a sharp 90 degree angle, in theory, should work better.
    Relieving the pump tunnel pressure, while not creating turbulence in front of the impeller is the ticket to 100 mph. Well, that and intake grates that wont crack...

  7. #7
    Mark I have not tried tapping into the extension yet and I dont know if it is thick enough, we just dont want any of the male threads on the elbow to portrude thru the extension, besides we need the valve height to clear the pump housing. I dont think that drilling into the tunnel is a good idea at all. I would like to keep that baby strong enough. My major concern would be cavitation out of the hole which with the valve we would not have ,with the pump stuffed at WOT I think that it will be ok but I may be wrong.

    Rossnemo, there was another idea which release pump pressure elsewhere without having to tap or drill the pump but it did not work well for the person who tested it.

  8. #8

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    It's amazing how we have to go back to old school to go forward. This idea originated on the 1999 ultra with 5/8 oblong angled holes in the ride shoe. This was to allow the ultra to use a small pump to have holeshot and top speed. 66 out of the box with a prop tweek. Todays ultra 250 is not much faster.

  9. #9
    Keep up the good work fellas, let me know if theres anything i can do to help.

    rxpstan--- it actually goes back further than that on the kawis-- tha 96 zxi had a WICKED pump stuff issue tha fix was the holes in the pump shoe on the 97's or 98's ( cant remember )

  10. #10

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    In 97 kawi came out with the air vents in front of the ride plate. The 1100 zxi was ok stock but when you added speed it would pick the azz up and turn instantly. So they added the ugly nose to the bottom front of the hull.

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