05-31-2013, 09:24 AM #1
Help get Murphy off my back... crank no start!
Sorry for the mini novel...
Filled up 4 f12x skis, same station, different pumps. (2 mine & 2 my brothers... 2 place trailers)
The ski that required the most fuel gave an FI warning and ran rough, after using around a 1/2 tank of fuel. Continued to stop and pull key for about a 15 min ride back to ramp.
Took it home and used the jumper and pulled codes 12, 13, 14, 15, 25 & 29.
IAC checked ok.
Rather than pull everything off to check the knock sensor, I swapped the ecm with the other f12x.
Now neither ski had a fault & no stored codes.
Topped off fuel at a different station, ran down to a couple of bars on the fuel level indicator. No faults.
Took the fleet (94 sp, 95 xp, 96 GTX, 97 GTX 2-06 f12x) out. Filled up at the same station as the one that I used when I had the first fault. The sp & xp & f12x used the same pump as the first time I had the fi fault, but 87 oct in doo's 93 in f12x. The GTXs used the pump that my brothers f12x used.
The xp needed almost a complete fill up, it started having issues right away, it would come out of the hole fine then bog right down. Being very careful it would hold 4500 rpms, kinda like high speed jets clogged over winter. (first trip out with them). I could also partialy hold out the choke and maintain 4500 rpms to get me back to the dock, without the choke it would slowly bog to just above an idle. Let it sit for a few minutes and it would take off again and begin its slow bog. Strange for carbs but maybe, haven't got that far yet.
We tried to run up river a ways to see if the jets would clear up... no dice.
Taking it back to the ramp and now the sp is starting to act up similarly.
Just before getting to the ramp the f12x that had no fault to begin with, starting showing fi warning. Unplugged key didn't return but was only a couple of minutes in the water after the warning.
The f12x that originally gave the fi warning died when coming off throttle at the no wake zone, no warning message. Cranks but no start.
GTXs stayed and kept ring for another hour or two with no problems.
Thinking the doo's may be carb related to storage, I started with the f12x's. Tried pulling codes from the ski that gave warning, no codes.
Determined the f12x that originally had codes but not now wasn't running the fuel pump. Checked all the pugs at the pump & relay & determined I'm not getting a signal from the ecm. Swapped ecm's and nothing changed. No codes on either f12x and the same one will not run the fuel pump.
What would cause the fuel pump to not run but still allow the motor to turn over?
Could bad gas cause this? how?
If the crank sensor was out wouldn't it prevent the engine from turning over?
I guess while I wait I'm gonna check for spark... just to see.
Last edited by cntryby; 05-31-2013 at 10:05 AM.
05-31-2013, 11:16 AM #2
Talk about going in circles for nothing....
One of the first things I did was check the fuse. When I reinstalled it I noticed I turned the 7.5 opposite to the rest of the fuses... no biggie.
Later, I started to check the rest of the fuses and realized I checked the 7.5 amp "inj" fuse instead of the pump fuse... doh!!!!!
Pump fuses was blown...
Hours check'n stuff that didn't need ta be checked... whata idiot...
Anyone ever heard of bad gas causing a pump fuse to blow?
06-04-2013, 06:57 AM #3
OK... Now I'm beginning to question my own sanity.
After replacing the fuse, put the ECM's back to original (#1) PWC's and took'm to the lake.
PWC 1 started giving the same FI warning right away, this time only code 25.
Symptoms were; warning light, erratic rpms, bouncing between 3k & 5k.
Swapped ECM's while at the lake and PWC 1 ran fine and after just a few minutes PWC 2 had warning FI. I did not clear the code before swapping as I left my jumper at home, would the code transfer with the ecm? seems like it may store the code but I wouldn't think it would cause the warning... but I don't know.
Trailer'd #2 as #1 was running good. After about an hour of riding, while just over idle, inj fuse blew. Now I question my sanity on whether or not I had mixed up the fuses before. Same symptoms, fuel pump wouldn't run when you put the key on.
I'm checking my ground straps & all my plug connections & everything seems good.
The only thing that gets my attention is the Batt only reads 12.33 vdc, but I can't picture where this would cause a blown fuse.
06-12-2013, 07:51 AM #4
OK, here is a summary for anyone who doesn't want to read this entire thread.
Bad gas gave 3 out of 4 skis problems. I know this because I pumped the gas out of the skis and purchased fuel at a non-ethanol station and now 3 of the skis are fine.
My ski, 2006 F12x (ski 1) gave an FI warning, code 25.
I swapped ecm's with my wifes 2006 f12x (ski 2), and both seem to run OK. After a while, ski 1 died. 7.5 amp inj. fuse was blown. (this is while using ski 2's ecm)
I've gone through the service manual and checked everything (sensors & wiring) I can with a meter. Everything seems to be OK except ski 1's batt was reading 12.3, it cranked the ski fine, but the manual says that is the low limit.
I put the ecms back to the original skis, replaced the batt, spark plugs, oil & filter.
Ran the ski on the trailer at home, (flush to warm up for oil change) got to the lake, fuse blew as soon as it was in the water. (On the original ecm)
Took it home, replaced fuse, as soon as I touched the starter, fuse blew. Only fuse left was 30 amp, tried it (prepared to shut it down quickly, and fire extinguisher handy) popped as soon as I hit the start button.
Replaced the knock sensor, put correct fuse in and it fired right up. Ran on the hose for 3 min &... FI code 25.
Now if I have to buy an ecm that's OK, doesn't make me happy, but I'll deal with it. What I don't wanna do is buy an ecm, then fry it because I'm getting a surge somewhere else.
Questions I have are;
1) In the schematic, the unmarked blocks that are just above the start switch legend, where are they physically located?
2) These look to be a buss, is this correct.
3) On the far right of the schematic just above the coils, the two plug "24P", are these the plugs taped to the harness on either side of the ecm?
4) These also look to be a buss, is this correct?
5) Right in the center of the schematic, WPC 14P where is this located physically?
06-12-2013, 11:39 AM #5
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check Ramon of h2oworldwide, he has answers for you.954}871-8761
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