Thread: Amsoil Saber
10-15-2013, 07:07 AM #1
I doubt many peeps use this oil, but did a search and there is not much on it...any thoughts or recommendations on Saber pre-mix?
10-15-2013, 07:19 AM #2
HP marine is what I recommend for a standard tcw 3 oil, or interceptor for motors with exhaust valves. Use where API-TC / JASO-FC oils are spec'd.
I am an Amsoil dealer, and have oil in stock if you need;
10-15-2013, 08:06 AM #3
...thanks John. I've used both those products. My question relates to experiences with Saber... ?
10-15-2013, 08:25 PM #4
I use the saber outboard in my 2 outboards and my kawi standup. Also used it in my raider before I sold it. I use the saber pro for all my lawn equip. Been using it for probably 6 years. It's good oil.
10-16-2013, 09:47 AM #5
10-16-2013, 05:14 PM #6
After researching more, there seems to be many peeps using the Saber in the stand-up world as mentioned by 'addicted'. One of several benefits I see is that it allows for 'on the fly' jetting changes by virtue of tweeking the ratio from 100/1 to up to 50/1. So that's definately a benefit; the flexibility of a high quality synthetic in this case. Secondly, on variable oil injection systems, when we change to pre-mix, we are effectively running too rich in the oil department and too lean in the gas department particularly if you're running 40/1 ratio. So it definately helps there with cold starting and starting in general. (Tried it in my outboard ski boat also, and it started right-up.)
My concern/question is at high RPM's the 100/1 may not be good. You guys nevertheless did testing correct? In the end, my research is showing that it looks like most folks are running 80/1 with good success. (?)
10-17-2013, 09:45 AM #7
You are correct, I am thinking of the saber "professional" sorry. When I have been posting I have been at home. I am now in the shop and DO see there is a saber outboard, that IS TCW-3 specd. I really have no experience with this oil.
Again, my "personal opinion" would be that 100:1 is awful lean. I would not sacrifice the reliability. even at 50:1 the amount of oil in the gas is minimal and really does NOT affect jetting specs, unless you are pushing the limits. I have been in the PWC business for more than 25 years. I have switched thousands of stock machines ( PWC's, Boats, ATV's, etc) from oil injection, to premix WITHOUT re-jetting. We are talking about 16oz of oil to 6 Gals of gas.....
So, I would say the saber TCW-3 would be good at 50:1. I still think the HP marine is better.
10-17-2013, 12:13 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Milwaukee WI
I have run all kinds of 2 stroke motors with the Amsoil at 100:1. It really does work. I bought some of the Saber outboard oil to premix in my tank after servicing the oil injection system.
10-25-2013, 10:37 AM #9
Thanks John, et al! appreciate the feedback. As of now, I am officially an Amsoil dealer !
Not necessarily interested in extending the spirited debate as it were, however, jetting is effected by the fuel/oil ratio plain and simple. I can't recall the formula rite now, but changing the oil ratio has a cooresponding jetting change for each increase/decrease in oz.'s of oil per gallon of gas.
On another note, in an effort to keep 2-strokes alive (way too idealistic I know) as a dealer now, I'm considering any 'lobbying' opportunities with Amsoil that may 'help the cause' (Saber 100/1 obviously one means to an end) in arguing for cleaner/smokeless/envornmental issues... .
As you were.
10-28-2013, 12:31 PM #10
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
You could run a carb'ed 2-stroke PWC engine with no oil at all (for a little while) and it would not be 'emissions clean'.
Unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) in the exhaust exit is a significant pollution issue for these engines.
The only personal watercraft 2-strokes I know of that meet emissions specs are the direct fuel injection engines, such as the Seadoo DI and the Ficht Direct Injection engines.
For example, the Polaris Ficht 2-stroke models sold circa 2002 - 2004 were approved for California 2006 Low Emissions (One Star) and are allowed on some lakes where carburetor 2-stroke are not.
If you want to operate on waters where carburetor watercraft are no longer allowed, the only options for a 2-stroke machine seem to be;
Replace the entire PWC with a more modern 4-stroke watercraft
Replace the carb engine with a direct fuel injection (emissions approved) version of the 2-stroke engine
Replace the old engine with a 4-stroke engine
Notwithstanding the question of oil pump or oil injection system reliability on 2-stroke watercraft, in general oil injection tends to consume less oil overall than pre-mixing. Therefore pre-mixing is not a net reduction in pollution unless the oil is somehow being 100% combusted inside the engine.
Given the hydrocarbon blow-through into the exhaust that carbureted 2-stroke engines tend towards, some of the pre-mixed oil is also going to be present in the exhaust.
At one time there was a push towards using 2-stroke oils that would bio-degrade in the environment, presumably with less water pollution effects than the non bio-degradable oils. Some of those 'greener' oils are still around.
Last edited by K447; 10-28-2013 at 12:47 PM.
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