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Thread: Amsoil Saber

  1. #1

    Amsoil Saber

    I doubt many peeps use this oil, but did a search and there is not much on it...any thoughts or recommendations on Saber pre-mix?


  2. #2
    john zigler's Avatar
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    HP marine is what I recommend for a standard tcw 3 oil, or interceptor for motors with exhaust valves. Use where API-TC / JASO-FC oils are spec'd.

    I am an Amsoil dealer, and have oil in stock if you need;

    https://www.watcon.com/electrical/st...tch-assembly-1

  3. #3
    ...thanks John. I've used both those products. My question relates to experiences with Saber... ?

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    cheatin' piston popper addicted's Avatar
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    I use the saber outboard in my 2 outboards and my kawi standup. Also used it in my raider before I sold it. I use the saber pro for all my lawn equip. Been using it for probably 6 years. It's good oil.

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    john zigler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mcgreehan View Post
    ...thanks John. I've used both those products. My question relates to experiences with Saber... ?
    I personally have no experience with the "saber" oil. "IMO" it is more for the smaller, air cooled engines, chainsaws, weed eaters, leaf blowers, etc. It does not have a "BIA" rating. For most PWC I recommend the HP marine. I would not recommend saber for any PWC use.....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by john zigler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jim mcgreehan View Post
    ...thanks John. I've used both those products. My question relates to experiences with Saber... ?
    I personally have no experience with the "saber" oil. "IMO" it is more for the smaller, air cooled engines, chainsaws, weed eaters, leaf blowers, etc. It does not have a "BIA" rating. For most PWC I recommend the HP marine. I would not recommend saber for any PWC use.....
    Hey guys, John, not trying to be a smart A$$ 'cause I certainly don't have all the answers, however, aren't you referring to the Amsoil Saber Professional? The Professional was designed for exactly that which you mentioned above. The Saber 'Outboard' was specifically designed for watercooled marine engines to include PWC's right?.

    After researching more, there seems to be many peeps using the Saber in the stand-up world as mentioned by 'addicted'. One of several benefits I see is that it allows for 'on the fly' jetting changes by virtue of tweeking the ratio from 100/1 to up to 50/1. So that's definately a benefit; the flexibility of a high quality synthetic in this case. Secondly, on variable oil injection systems, when we change to pre-mix, we are effectively running too rich in the oil department and too lean in the gas department particularly if you're running 40/1 ratio. So it definately helps there with cold starting and starting in general. (Tried it in my outboard ski boat also, and it started right-up.)

    My concern/question is at high RPM's the 100/1 may not be good. You guys nevertheless did testing correct? In the end, my research is showing that it looks like most folks are running 80/1 with good success. (?)

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    john zigler's Avatar
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    You are correct, I am thinking of the saber "professional" sorry. When I have been posting I have been at home. I am now in the shop and DO see there is a saber outboard, that IS TCW-3 specd. I really have no experience with this oil.

    Again, my "personal opinion" would be that 100:1 is awful lean. I would not sacrifice the reliability. even at 50:1 the amount of oil in the gas is minimal and really does NOT affect jetting specs, unless you are pushing the limits. I have been in the PWC business for more than 25 years. I have switched thousands of stock machines ( PWC's, Boats, ATV's, etc) from oil injection, to premix WITHOUT re-jetting. We are talking about 16oz of oil to 6 Gals of gas.....

    So, I would say the saber TCW-3 would be good at 50:1. I still think the HP marine is better.

  8. #8
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    I have run all kinds of 2 stroke motors with the Amsoil at 100:1. It really does work. I bought some of the Saber outboard oil to premix in my tank after servicing the oil injection system.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by john zigler View Post
    You are correct, I am thinking of the saber "professional" sorry. When I have been posting I have been at home. I am now in the shop and DO see there is a saber outboard, that IS TCW-3 specd. I really have no experience with this oil.

    Again, my "personal opinion" would be that 100:1 is awful lean. I would not sacrifice the reliability. even at 50:1 the amount of oil in the gas is minimal and really does NOT affect jetting specs, unless you are pushing the limits. I have been in the PWC business for more than 25 years. I have switched thousands of stock machines ( PWC's, Boats, ATV's, etc) from oil injection, to premix WITHOUT re-jetting. We are talking about 16oz of oil to 6 Gals of gas.....

    So, I would say the saber TCW-3 would be good at 50:1. I still think the HP marine is better.

    Thanks John, et al! appreciate the feedback. As of now, I am officially an Amsoil dealer !

    Not necessarily interested in extending the spirited debate as it were, however, jetting is effected by the fuel/oil ratio plain and simple. I can't recall the formula rite now, but changing the oil ratio has a cooresponding jetting change for each increase/decrease in oz.'s of oil per gallon of gas.

    On another note, in an effort to keep 2-strokes alive (way too idealistic I know) as a dealer now, I'm considering any 'lobbying' opportunities with Amsoil that may 'help the cause' (Saber 100/1 obviously one means to an end) in arguing for cleaner/smokeless/envornmental issues... .

    As you were.

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mcgreehan View Post
    ...

    On another note, in an effort to keep 2-strokes alive (way too idealistic I know) ... I'm considering any 'lobbying' opportunities with Amsoil that may 'help the cause' (Saber 100/1 obviously one means to an end) in arguing for cleaner/smokeless/environmental issues...
    Pollution/exhaust (including visible smoke) emissions caused by the 2-stroke oil are only one factor causing carburetor and even air intake fuel injected 2-stroke engines to not meet modern emission requirements.

    You could run a carb'ed 2-stroke PWC engine with no oil at all (for a little while) and it would not be 'emissions clean'.

    Unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) in the exhaust exit is a significant pollution issue for these engines.

    The only personal watercraft 2-strokes I know of that meet emissions specs are the direct fuel injection engines, such as the Seadoo DI and the Ficht Direct Injection engines.

    For example, the Polaris Ficht 2-stroke models sold circa 2002 - 2004 were approved for California 2006 Low Emissions (One Star) and are allowed on some lakes where carburetor 2-stroke are not.

    If you want to operate on waters where carburetor watercraft are no longer allowed, the only options for a 2-stroke machine seem to be;
    Replace the entire PWC with a more modern 4-stroke watercraft
    Replace the carb engine with a direct fuel injection (emissions approved) version of the 2-stroke engine
    Replace the old engine with a 4-stroke engine

    Notwithstanding the question of oil pump or oil injection system reliability on 2-stroke watercraft, in general oil injection tends to consume less oil overall than pre-mixing. Therefore pre-mixing is not a net reduction in pollution unless the oil is somehow being 100% combusted inside the engine.

    Given the hydrocarbon blow-through into the exhaust that carbureted 2-stroke engines tend towards, some of the pre-mixed oil is also going to be present in the exhaust.

    At one time there was a push towards using 2-stroke oils that would bio-degrade in the environment, presumably with less water pollution effects than the non bio-degradable oils. Some of those 'greener' oils are still around.
    Last edited by K447; 10-28-2013 at 12:47 PM.

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