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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Msx 110 problems please help max rpm 5850

    Hi everyone after some help with my msx 110 not reaching top speed and boost will max out at 5850- 5950 starts and idles fine will run all day long but only limited revs and boost no get up and go on take off either history on the ski I pickup the ski not running with 46 hours on it and it wouldn't rev past 3500 so did some searching and read a lot of things on the forums also had water in the oil so I purchased a heap of parts so far I have replaced new IFB module that fixed the first problem , new updated tank kit , both map sensors ,exhaust temp switch,coolant temp sensor ,flushed oil replaced filter,updated boost solenoid replaced all intake hoses and clamps,all boost hoses and clamps throttle body hose clamps and rubber mount performed leak down test ok compression test 128/130 psi ok got the ecu history codes reset oil is perfect not mixing anymore wastegate is free and moving fine yet still only 5850-5950 max rpm I have checked turbo seems fine very little play in the shaft I'm at a lost no have spent a fortune on parts cause no workshop would touch it any help or suggestions would be great


  2. #2
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Welcome to Green Hulk!

    Sorry to hear about your troubles. Sure sounds like you spend a pretty penny on all the parts you've listed. Sounds like you covered all the bases and likely culprits with your purchases. But here are some things to check...

    A ~5900 max rpm... sounds like a possible boost leak to me. That is the approximate max rpm I too could reach when I had an intake hose slips off the pipes and leaks boost. Possible boost leak points: hoses/hard pipes, possible cut/puncture in hose, MAP sensors (should have o-ring seal on them), throttle body rubber boot, vacuum/boost source (front side of intake mani... feeds line to fuel pressure reg.), ruptured intercooler (internally leaking), intake manifold o-rings seal to head (leaks after TB would cause erratic idle...so probably not the issue).

    When you say "no get up and go on take off either"... can you describe more? Slow or sluggish getting up on plane from stop? Have you checked your jet pump? Confirmed good impeller to wear ring clearance? Confirmed good/smooth bearings?

    Any "check engine" or other indicators on the dash?

    What plugs are you running?

    Using premium-only (high octane) fuel?

    What oil are you using?

    Cheers!

  3. #3
    Hi ripcuda I have checked all hoses and replaced and checked inter cooler all ok it does have a erratic idle on start up out of the water but in the water it is fine does vibrate a bit though yes it's very slow getting up on the plane from stop then it's fine top speed 80kph tried to check jet pump but could remove the outer housing long plastic hard pipe on right hand site is stuck and the service manual doesn't show how to any ideas I did a boost gauge check and it's only hitting 6 psi there is no check engine light I am running ngk bkr7e and nulon marine 15-50 oil have the oil on the min mark of the new tank when warm and using premium 95 octane fuel in Australia only thing I did notice when replaced the rubber mount for the throttle body was inside the intake manifold was a bit of oil checked other pipes there still fine no oil at all thanks

  4. #4
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    If you're only reaching 6psi max boost... there's your problem. The MSX 110 should peak at 11psi. That would explain why you're only reaching around 5900rpms max. It takes that extra boost to get you to redline (soft redline ~7300-7500 rpms).

    Either you have your new wastegate solenoid plumbed wrong... or it's stuck in the unpowered (closed) position... sending all boost pressure straight to the wastegate... which will give you a max boost of... wait for it... 6psi.

    Could be a bad solenoid... or perhaps a wiring problem to the solenoid (broke wire?).

    Another thing... did you "relearn" the throttle mapping since you got your cleared ECU back? I'd do it again anyway... only takes a minute... don't have to start the engine.

    With engine off, lanyard out, system powered down... insert lanyard, then tap the starter button (do not start it) to power up the system (dash will come on)... next slowly squeeze the throttle trigger to WOT... hold for 2 secs... then slowly let it out to zero... wait 2 secs... (repeat squeeze/pause/release/pause part 2 more times)... then pull lanyard and let system power down (takes a minute or so)... done.

    Engine should idle rock steady at 1500-1550 in or out of the water. There is the chance when out of the water that the RPMs will rev sky high (no load on the engine)... which is why you always engage the reverse lever when running the engine out of the water to limit revs to 3400 max.

    Everything else you mention... sounds spot on.

    Cheers!

  5. #5
    Hi ripcuda checked everything all ok but still max 5950 rpm only thing I have found is the bottom inlet manifold map sensor keeps getting a build up of yellowish oily residue on it and I keep cleaning it and run it then remove to check and it's covered again top intake map sensor is fine doesn't get dirty also looking at your other posts the 4wire connector is meant to go to the lower manifold map sensor and the 3 wire to the top map sensor if I put this as you say is correct it runs really bad with erratic idle if I have the 3 wire connector at the bottom map it runs fine is this weird

  6. #6
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Couple things...

    1. 4-wire connector goes to hardpipe MAP... 3-wire connector goes to intake manifold MAP. I found the post where I had explained them backwards and am fixing it so the info is correct. Here's info from another post that was correct:
    As for the MAP... what usually goes bad in them is a sensitive filament that detects air temps. These MAPs have 2 parts... the pressure sensor and the temp sensor. On the Weber, both MAPs (which are identical) are used for pressure sensing... but only the one on the hardpipe is used for sensing air temps. You may notice that wire connector has 4 wires.... whereas the wire connector for the one on the intake manifold only has 3. When these are oil fouled and/or cleaned... it's the filament that gets damaged and then sends wonky air temp readings to the ECU. You could try to clean them with some sort of sensor cleaner... but warm soapy water may be the best. Most folks don't seem to have luck trying to clean them... not sure what they use... and thus buy new ones (~$45 from GM direct).
    2. How have you confirmed your "boost valve" (i.e. wastegate solenoid) has checked okay? You did say it was new. Are you still only getting 6psi? If so, I would try this. Unhook the hose from the solenoid to the wastegate (just let them dangle) then take it for a spin. Then get on it and watch the RPMs. They shoot up real fast... full boost... hit the RPM rev limiter... throw an overboost check engine... then drop back down to a max RPM of 4800... this would all be "normal" for overboost. This would in fact prove that you can reach the upper RPMs (max RPM) and that you have a working turbo giving you the boost you need to do it. This would then point your current 5950 RPM max condition to being a bad wastegate solenoid limiting you to only ~6psi. And just FYI... the overboost check-engine condition will reset after you turn off the engine and restart and no permanent damage will be done... the computer will protect itself from overboost. It's possible there is a wiring problem in the harness... and not the solenoid itself.

    3. The oily gunk in your intake manifold is probably remnants of the water-in-the-oil sludge mess you originally cleaned up. Can takes multiple efforts to get it all... especially if you don't remove the intercooler out of the craft and get it thoroughly cleaned. It traps gunk down in there and will spit it out over time. Pull the hardpipe and throttle body off... then clean out the intake manifold through the TB hole opening. Get it good and clean... use carb cleaner. Make sure your hard pipe is clean too and shine a flashlight into the Intercooler and see if you can detect any oily gunk down in there. If you never removed the IC for cleaning... you might consider this... just to be sure.

    Cheers!

  7. #7
    Matrix 4-Tec spannerspencer's Avatar
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    i had a similar rev limit on my 150. when I sent it to precisionsports, martin said the ecu had "locked". he claimed this happens when the ecu regularly had bad readings from maps. a reflash sorted this.

    just thought I would mension.

    (have you slaved another ecu)? I think one thing martin said he did him self was piggy back two ecu's so if one went down he could just swop the 3 ecu plugs over.

  8. #8
    Hi ripcuda yes I gave removed intercooler a few time now and cleaned all pipes but haven't cleaned inside the intake manifold I will try this and we did put a boost gauge on it on the weekend and and played around by clamping off different pipes and at one stage it showed 12+psi then took off hard then backed down like a fuel cut is there any way of testing the solenoid and the wire to it

  9. #9
    ripcuda's Avatar
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    Okay... so that time when it boosted 12+ psi... then felt like it hit fuel cut-out... that cut-out was ECU controlled overboost protection. So it sounds like your turbo can make the boost. And I'm assuming that when it "took off hard" with full boost that your RPMs went above the 5950 rpms you seem stuck at normally. So... seems it is likely one of the following:

    1. Bad "Boost Valve" (aka wastegate solenoid). You said you put a new updated-style (mounts to bracket off valve cover) one in... so seems unlikely, but not impossible. You can test these with 12 volts to the wire connector pins and listen for the valve to open/close...then blow through it to make sure it's sealing properly when open/closed... but this isn't 100% guarantee that it's still not having issues. One member here tested his valve under boost conditions and found that it got "stuck". See this thread for more details:
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=197179

    2. Break in wires to wastegate solenoid. Would need to check wiring diagram... see the pin-out for the wires to this then run a continuity test on them to ensure they are not broken... or grounded somehow.

    3. Messed up (aka "locked") ECU... like Spencer mentioned. Would need to send ECU to someone like Desperado (Martin @ Precision Sports) to reflash the ECU back to either stock or his performance Stage2 reflash.

    Cheers!

  10. #10
    Ok thanks I will try these last few things your help has been much appreciated thankyou

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