Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
  1. #1

    1999 Genesis will not rev high and has miss.

    I have been reading the manuals, wiring schematics, and forums for weeks now and have not found the source of the issue.

    The ski: 1999 Polaris Genesis 1200, carbs, red engine. Installed rebuilt engine a few years ago and did the oil pump delete.

    The issue:
    Ski will start and run. When it is throttled up it sounds like it has a bad miss on one of the cylinders and will not rev up to full throttle. We figured out that if we unplugged the grey deutsch connector and plugged it back in, we could start the ski and it would run fine for a few minutes and then would return to the miss. On the water the miss made it where I could not get on plane. I also noticed that the multi fuction gauge stays on all of the time. It never goes into a sleep mode. I could have sworn it did go to sleep when we bought the ski.

    What we have tried so far:
    - Changed spark plugs. No change.
    - New battery fully charged. No change.
    - We thought that the deutsch plug going to the electrical box in the engine compartment might be corroded so we eliminated the plug and that possibility. No change.
    - After doing some research it sounded like the CPI module was the issue. We replaced the CPI module. No change.
    - Checked grounds in the electrical box in the engine compartment. All good.

    Where we are at now:
    - We are going to disconnect the grey wire on the CPI module (not the one from the stator) and see if that fixes the problem. If it does, where do I go from there?
    - Going to check grounds in the electrical box at the front of the ski.
    - It does not sound like the LR-31 (voltage regulator) because the reverse is working just fine. Although the bilge did go out and we replaced it, it still does not work. We are going to check the 3 amp fuse for the bilge tomorrow. (we did not realize there was another electrical box up front until tonight.) I think this is a separate issue though.
    - It does not sound like the LR-502, because it is starting and stopping just fine.

    I have looked through countless forum threads here and other places and have not found this exact issue on this ski.

    Any thoughts and help would be greatly appreciated.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,598
    +1
    1,276
    Welcome

    This is a carburetor engine, not FFI fuel injected, correct?

    Which Deutsch connector did you remove? The one inline with the stator cable?

    You replaced the CDI ignition module, correct?

    Did you check the stator coil ohms and Hall Effect sensors?

    Disconnect the battery positive cable, then check for zero ohms between the black ground wires inside the electrical box and the engine case bolts. This ground link is provided via the black wire in the stator cable, and the stator mounting bolts in the flywheel housing.
    Also zero ohms to battery negative post.

    Have you opened the flywheel housing for inspection? Water or corrosion inside there will cause trouble.

    What spark plugs are you using?

    Did you visually inspect and ohm check the spark plug wires and ignition coil?

    You can bypass the LR-502 Start/Stop module for testing.

    Since your machine seems to be starting and stopping normally, you may only need to disconnect the Black/Yellow wire, which is the ignition kill signal to the CDI from the LR module.

    Note: LR-502 was only used on the 1999 model, the replacement LR-505 (2000 onwards) combines the Start/Stop function with the previously separate LR-31 voltage regulator function.

    It is normal for the MFI display to always show the clock along with static indicators for fuel and oil. You can see the display 'wake up' after sitting without activity more than five minutes. Wait more than five minutes, then press the Display button. If you see the speedo needle do a full sweep and return to zero, that means the MFI display just 'woke up' and it was previously in low power sleep mode, with clock visible.

    That said, it is possible for a bad MFI display to confuse the ignition system. You can unplug the connector from the back of the MFI display and insert a bypass wire to allow the engine to start. The wire jumper is needed to bypass the security lock function in the display.

    See my signature links for additional info.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Welcome

    This is a carburetor engine, not FFI fuel injected, correct? Correct

    Which Deutsch connector did you remove? The one inline with the stator cable? Correct

    You replaced the CDI ignition module, correct? Correct

    Did you check the stator coil ohms and Hall Effect sensors? I have not yet. I was not looking in that direction because I can get it to run great for a little while after I disconnected the Deutsch connector.

    Disconnect the battery positive cable, then check for zero ohms between the black ground wires inside the electrical box and the engine case bolts. This ground link is provided via the black wire in the stator cable, and the stator mounting bolts in the flywheel housing.
    Also zero ohms to battery negative post. I will try this out tonight.

    Have you opened the flywheel housing for inspection? Water or corrosion inside there will cause troublle? I have not yet. I will try to take a look tonight and let you know

    What spark plugs are you using? Not positive of the number right now. I do know we did go back with the same spark plugs that were in it though.

    Did you visually inspect and ohm check the spark plug wires and ignition coil? I did not. I will work on getting this tonight.

    You can bypass the LR-502 Start/Stop module for testing.

    Since your machine seems to be starting and stopping normally, you may only need to disconnect the Black/Yellow wire, which is the ignition kill signal to the CDI from the LR module.

    Note: LR-502 was only used on the 1999 model, the replacement LR-505 (2000 onwards) combines the Start/Stop function with the previously separate LR-31 voltage regulator function.

    It is normal for the MFI display to always show the clock along with static indicators for fuel and oil. You can see the display 'wake up' after sitting without activity more than five minutes. Wait more than five minutes, then press the Display button. If you see the speedo needle do a full sweep and return to zero, that means the MFI display just 'woke up' and it was previously in low power sleep mode, with clock visible.

    That said, it is possible for a bad MFI display to confuse the ignition system. You can unplug the connector from the back of the MFI display and insert a bypass wire to allow the engine to start. The wire jumper is needed to bypass the security lock function in the display.

    See my signature links for additional info.


    Thank you for your help. I will check this and more and let you know where we stand on it. This is driving me crazy, but it won't get the best of me.

  4. #4
    We noticed something interesting this morning.

    When the display says "Unlocked" at the bottom of the screen the ski runs bad. I can reset the MFI so that the display shows the voltage, distance, and hours at the bottom of the screen and the engine runs great. After a couple of minutes the display goes back to "Unlocked" at the bottom of the screen and it starts running bad again.

    I have attached pictures of each situation and I am uploading some videos to youtube which I will post the links to as soon as they are done uploading.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	runsBad.jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	71.1 KB 
ID:	317739   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	runsGood.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	84.7 KB 
ID:	317740  

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,598
    +1
    1,276
    Does the RPM display work properly all the time when the engine is running?

    The graphical arc around the left side should always show RPM when the engine is running.

    Since your MFI has a compass, the little arrowhead should also be visible whenever the engine is running, or the display is still awake (less than five minutes) from the last time the engine was running.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Does the RPM display work properly all the time when the engine is running?

    The graphical arc around the left side should always show RPM when the engine is running.

    Since your MFI has a compass, the little arrowhead should also be visible whenever the engine is running, or the display is still awake (less than five minutes) from the last time the engine was running.
    I had to look back at the videos, but no it is not working.

  7. #7
    I am going to try and figure out how to check the signal telling the display that the engine is running. This should be the Yellow wire, correct?

    Here are the links for the videos I took this morning.

    1st video and it is running great.


    Video 2. A couple of minutes later it is running bad. The "Unlocked" is on the bottom of the screen.


    Video 3. A couple of minutes after video 2. You can see me wake up the display and it starts running great again.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,598
    +1
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by jeridbrown View Post
    I am going to try and figure out how to check the signal telling the display that the engine is running.
    This should be the Yellow wire, correct? ...
    Yellow wire does indeed provide RPM signal to the display.

    Note that the same Yellow wire feed from the stator coil is used to control the battery charging voltage, via the LR module. In reality the tachometer is listening to the stator charging coil's AC output that the LR module is also rectifying to provide DC charging current into the battery.

    So this could indicate a problem with the stator charging coil or with the LR module.

    Yellow wire should measure full battery voltage when the engine is off. The stator charging coil has two wires. Red/Purple feeds full battery voltage into the stator. This same voltage should appear on the yellow stator wire when engine is not running.

    If no battery voltage appears on stator Yellow, check the stator's Red/Purple wire connection to battery power. If that seems good, disconnect both stator wires and check the ohms between Red/Purple and Yellow stator wires. Disconnect battery positive before doing this check.

  9. #9
    Not running:
    Yellow wire - 12.9 volts (tested off of the white wire sticking up in the picture)

    Running:
    MFI was bypassed (Jumper from Purple/white wire (#1 post) to Black wire (#3 post))
    Yellow wire: 18.50 volts (tested off of the white wire sticking up in the picture)

    It is running great with the jumper wire on it!

    Is there something else I should check or is it safe to say that the problem lies within the MFI?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	backOfMFI.jpg 
Views:	57 
Size:	77.0 KB 
ID:	317825   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bypassing MFI.jpg 
Views:	48 
Size:	81.2 KB 
ID:	317826  

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,598
    +1
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by jeridbrown View Post
    Not running:
    Yellow wire - 12.9 volts (tested off of the white wire sticking up in the picture)

    Running:
    MFI was bypassed (Jumper from Purple/white wire (#1 post) to Black wire (#3 post))
    Yellow wire: 18.50 volts (tested off of the white wire sticking up in the picture)

    It is running great with the jumper wire on it!

    Is there something else I should check or is it safe to say that the problem lies within the MFI?
    The MFI does at this point seem like the primary suspect

    I have encountered reports in the past where a display unit was causing weird ignition problems with carbureted engines. Typically when the MFD was dead (no visible/working display) or water damaged inside. I suspect it is somehow polluting the ignition kill signal or the RPM signal and the LR module is getting confused.

    Some more tests;

    What is the battery voltage with engine off, and again with engine running?
    Voltage should jump up to around 14.x volts as soon as the engine is running, and remain fairly stable as RPM varies with throttle. Measured with a good multi-meter.
    The point is to confirm the LR-31 module is indeed working properly and regulating battery charge voltage.

    If you bypass the LR-502 module, or just disconnect the Black/Yellow wire ignition kill output from the LR-502 module, does the connected display no longer interfere with the engine?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 1999 genesis will not shut off
    By Hayszuki in forum Polaris How To & FAQs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  2. 2007 stx 12f Will not rev smoothly and terrible holeshot
    By matrixman16 in forum Kawasaki How To & FAQs
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-12-2011, 09:32 PM
  3. Need Advice - 99 Genesis will not rev
    By sdrake in forum Polaris Open Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-24-2010, 01:37 PM
  4. More GTX rfi questions... will not rev past 6000 and shuts down
    By zrtman in forum 2-Stroke Performance
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-19-2009, 04:53 PM
  5. 1999 carb genesis will not start
    By electrician112159 in forum Polaris Open Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-05-2009, 09:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •