11-03-2013, 09:42 PM #1
My Hydrodrag Speed Alley Experience Today
Just the facts.
Prior to 2013 hydrodrag superstock class had the same maximum engine displacement limit as unlimited class at 2000cc.
Here is a copy of rule from 2012 rulebook for superstock.
25.6.4 Engine: Engines may be bored. Aftermarket piston assemblies are allowed. Engine displacement must not exceed class designation
(e.g.,1300cc in Pro‐Am Run Open, 2000cc for 4‐Stroke Open, etc.).
So I bulid a 1.9 (which is 1900cc) engine in summer of 2012 and run it beginning at fall hydrodrags 2012.
New 2013 rulebook finally get printed and posted online in may of 2013, just weeks before first hydrodrag race of 2013.
By accident in September 2013 I read where someone else mentioned it now says maximum superstock engine displacement can now be only 1mm over bore, but for a SKI, not a runabout. For those that don't know, a SKI is a standup only, and are not allowed in the hyrdodrags. RUNABOUTS are what we race in the hydrodrags.
Here is 2013 27.1 displacement rule addendum.
All normally aspirated 4 stroke SKI Pwc shall be allowed a maximum displacement of 1100cc or OEM displacement plus 1mm on all cylinders (whichever is greater). All normally aspirated 2 stroke SKI Pwc shall be allowed a maximum displacement of 1200cc. Any SKI pwc which is supercharged or turbocharged shall be limited to a maximum displacement of 800cc or OEM displacement plus 1mm overbore on all cylinders, (whichever is greater).
Amid the confusion this rule creates I decide to email Mike Young and Mike Hodges at Riva Racing for some clarification since the Term SKI refers to a standup only which are not allowed in hydrodrag racing.
Here is the reply to my email copied and pasted that I received from Mike Hodges at Riva Racing.
Hi. Actually, I am the head of the rules committee. Regretfully, the addendum you've noted was left in the rules for HydroDrag when it should have been omitted. It applies to stand-ups only which we do not allow in HydroDrag racing. I apologize for any inconvenience or unnecessary stress this has caused. See you at the World Finals in November!
So I take this as absolute clarification from the head of the rules committee that my 1.9 that was legal last year is still legal this year because of an admitted mistake in the 2013 rulebook.
No so seems the case. I was protested after winning todays superstock speed alley by another competitor over my engine bore size, and after showing the reply email I received from head of rules committee Mike Hodges to all the officials involved today in making a decision as to if I were legal or not, after nearly a 2 hour wait I was deemed illegal and was put in 3rd place as there were only 3 entries in superstock speed alley.
My sole reason for posting this factual information is to avoid the label of a cheater. I did all I could to clarify a rule that made no sense, took the initiative to inquire about it to make sure of my superstock displacement legality, then received clarification from Mike Hodges the head of the rules committee that I was ok, that the rule was a mistake to the hydrodrag 2013 rulebook and only applies to stand up skis, yet still was dinked out of 1st place today in speed alley because of it.
Hopefully this rule will be clarified and thrown out as it clearly is for standups only as per the word (SKI) being used and not the word (RUNABOUT), and was an admitted mistake in the 2013 rulebook by Mike Hodges head of rules committee.
And last but not least, if Mike Hodges needed clarification from a higher authority to verify its validity, then why wasn't it done before race day? My email dates sep 17 2013.
11-03-2013, 09:57 PM #2
Hey Ross. I just go by the rule book instead of some craptastic fantasy of some email from jesus that says its "OK". Its much easier that way.
11-03-2013, 11:00 PM #3
Ok ill take your advice, next race if the rulebook says I need 4 tires and a snowplow on my ski ill make sure and have them on it and not question anything.
11-04-2013, 05:33 AM #4
I was just reading in the SeaDoo section some of the guys lamenting that it's "who you know" that will determine whether you're legal or not. There are "stock" skis doing like 84mph and somehow are not questioned--nor are they teched. This is ALL hear-say on my part, though. I don't know any of that to be factual.
But from the looks of things as described in the SeaDoo section and in your post, things need to be looked into! By whom, I don't know. If it's the guys in charge who are "corrupt," it could prove to be impossible for an "outsider" to get a fair shake.
11-04-2013, 06:41 AM #5
- Join Date
- May 2006
The guys in charge are not corrupt!!!!! are you kidding me!!! These guys go out of there way to be fair to everyone, in my view.
I know what Ross is saying and he has good grounds for say it, The ruels need to be more clear about all these things and the bottom bottom line is Fraizer and Mike Rogers. I have had questions in the past and went to Frazier for clairafaction before preceding. It has taken me along time to figure out what these rules are on size and often wondered if I could bore my engine out to 2000 cc.
Heres the way I understand the ruels. First is ijsba ruels that itr all starts from and then there are additions. If its not spelled out in the additions or adendems then its ijsba.
4 stroke class desnition is 1600 ccs. All 4 strokes can be 1600 ccs. ie if you have a 1300 4 stroke you can make it 1600 by bore even in stock class,(how a seedoo might be much faster than a stock bore seedoo. Futher then is the manfucture of water craft. ie Yamaha comes along with an 1812 ncc. So this is over the 1600 cc limit. It is allowed but resticed to 1 milmitter overbore because its over the 1600 cc limit, In no case even by manfucture is over 2000 ccs going to be allowed. So if some manfactrure built a 1980 cc it would be allowed but only as built by the manfucture. Not that anyone can bore out to 2000, the 4 stroke class is limited to 1600 cc.
This is my understanding and can be wrong feel free to correct me. I am not an athurty on the subject and cant spell either lol.
BUT come on lay off the bullshit about its all about who you know. I do not see any of that. I am there on the ground.
11-04-2013, 09:10 AM #6
Mike Hodges was there, and part of the discussion with other officials, and said to me and others the rule was a mistake and should be thrown out, that I was legal. But he was clearly over ruled by someone else, and I don't know who. That's why my comment is if he is not the final word then why didn't he check with the proper higher authority?
If there were something else I could have done, I want someone to specify what it is. I was told nothing at the end. Wasn't until the awards ceremony that everyone found out what the decision was. An incredibly poor job at creating a rulebook, and an even worse job of judging right from wrong cost me a world finals title. Yes I want whats right, I want it reversed. I have emailed IJSBA and posted this true and factual information on all forums for all too read.. Just the facts..
Now I received a text message from 931-260-1383, and don't know who it is.. I will quote the text for all to see. (Ross how does third feel? Next time you protest make sure your shit is in order! Oh yea, you got third by default!!) End quote.. For the record, I have never filed a protest on anyone.
11-04-2013, 09:32 AM #7
Yes its as clear as mud Kerry, and full of contradictions. Obviously a mistake was made when hurrying up to get the new 2013 hydrodrag rulebook in print. That's why I made my best effort at clarifying it. The one word in the addendum which negates its validity for hydrodrag racing is the word (SKI). The wording of this rule uses the word SKI and not a RUNABOUT, and a SKI is a stand up only, not even allowed in hydrodrag racing. In any court this would be grounds for this rule to be thrown out, and the decision reversed on who won. Someone needs to step up and do the right thing here.
11-04-2013, 10:56 AM #8
- Join Date
- May 2006
I 100% know that you believed that you were legal and did proper steps to make sure you were following the rules. And it sucks and the text is just out of hand and poor sportsman ship.
11-04-2013, 11:08 PM #9
11-05-2013, 11:05 PM #10
Ok the confusion has been cleared, and i am good with it, no problem. 1mm overbore is the limit per IJSBA rules in superstock. This is Per Scott Frazier and Mike Rogers at IJSBA. What happened is i asked Mike Young who could clarify a rule for me and he told to email Mike Hodges who is the head of the rules committee at Riva Racing. However Mike Hodges is not part of the IJSBA, and has no authority with the IJSBA. He is considered a third party. I did not know that, and clearly Mike Young didnt either. So what we have learned here is if there are any questions on rules from this point forward do not ask Mike Hodges at Riva Racing as he has no authority when it comes to the rules. Sorry Mike Hodges but just stating the facts as i was told today from Scott Frazier. And Mike Hodges, dont take this the wrong way, but if ever asked again about a rule you may want to confer with Scott Frazier or Mike Rogers before you give an answer so we can all avoid the debacle happenning again in the future. But hey, its all good. We all learned something.. How to proceed when there is a rule you need clarified. email@example.com is Mike Rogers email, and firstname.lastname@example.org is Scott Fraziers email. Those 2 alone can give a valid answer to your questions. The season is over, and who knows what next years rule changes may be. One thing is for sure, if i have a question, i know who to ask. Maybe santa will bring me that turbo now. Forward we go..
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