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  1. #1

    Help needed to diagnose '99 genesis 1200

    I got a 1999 Genesis 1200 (carb model) on a blind trade without starting it or riding it or anything, knowing that it was not in running condition. I got this one along with a non-running Kawasaki STX. My plan was to fix them both, and I started with the kawi (which I am far more familiar with). But when I started trying to fix the Polaris it was completely new to me. I don't know exactly what the starting procedures are for this PWC, I don't know what the display screen has to do with anything, I just kinda jumped into this and have been combing over posts on this site for days trying to learn and diagnose this problem myself...but I am now at the point where I figured it would be better to ask the experts for some much needed input. I will try to include as much info about what I've done and what I know so far and I am hoping someone can fill in the rest or at least point me in the right direction.

    Step one... Poured some sea foam into the gas tank and topped it off with gas (I was told it had been sitting for several years).

    Step two... Stuck the lanyard in place and hit the start button. Nothing happens. Nothing at all.

    Step 3... Check battery. Battery was completely dead, replaced it with a new AGM battery with a full charge.

    Step 4... Put the battery in, hooked it up and the display comes on, the red light above the lcd screen is blinking rapidly but there is no warning message at the bottom of the screen indicating what it's for, the message only says "reverse". The start button still does not initiate any cranking or even a noise.

    Step 5... Disconnected the battery. Just for good measure I topped off the oil tank in case low oil was the cause of the warning. Reconnected the battery again, the display comes on, no light flashing now. Both oil and fuel gauges show that both are full. No voltage indication on the display, voltage was measured externally with a multimeter @ around 13.2VDC. The start button still does not function.

    Step 6... Disconnect the wiring connector from the back of the display and hotwire the ignition by connecting pins 1 and 3 with a copper wire. The start button still does nothing when pressed.

    This is where I'm at right now. As I understand it, step 6 should have taken the computer out of the equation completely, and the start button still does not start anything. The "fwd, rev" buttons also don't move anything. Is there anything that jumps out at anybody as being an obvious problem here? Please help.

    Thanks!


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome

    The Reverse message on the display means the reverse motor is not in the full forward position or the switch on the reverse mechanism is not working properly. The actual switch is internal with the electric reverse motor assembly. This will not prevent the engine from starting, so you can investigate it later.

    The Start button sends a signal to the LR-502 Start/Stop module. The LR-502 was only used on the 1999 Genesis. In later years the LR-505 handles both Start/Stop and voltage regulator functions. On your 1999 Genesis there is a separate LR-31 module for voltage regulation (battery charging).

    To see if the engine will actually crank, the simplest test is to use a metal tool to short between the two heavy studs on the start solenoid. These studs have the two heavy red cables attached. One from the battery, one to the start motor on the engine.

    Do not allow the metal tool to touch anything else (especially not the engine), just those two studs on the solenoid. There will be sparks so use a firm hand to create a solid electrical link between the studs. The engine should instantly begin cranking and continue to crank until you remove the tool.

    If the engine cranks, then the starter motor is good.

    Next step top is to bypass the LR-502 Start/Stop module. There are two electrical boxes in the Genesis, find the one with the LR-502 module. The second electrical box may be in the front storage area, perhaps behind the bulkhead access cover.

    Take digital photos and make notes of where each wire for the LR module is connected. Disconnect all the LR-502 module wires, tape them together out of the way.

    Find the only other Black/White wire (Black wire with white stripe) and move it onto one of the Black terminals. Now the Start button is directly controlling the start solenoid.

    Press the Start button. Does the engine crank? If yes, then the LR-502 module is suspect.

    If not, the start solenoid may be bad. If the solenoid is the original part it will be black with a metal backing plate. These are known to corrode internally and fail over time. Replace it with the current version, which is all plastic molded, no metal plate.

    See my signature links for info on rebuilding the carburetors and replacing the original gray Tempo fuel hoses, if present.

  3. #3
    wow..... I could not have asked for a better, more thorough response, I appreciate it! I will try that as soon as I get my hands on it again. Would you recommend changing out those parts anyway (the metal solenoid and the gray tempo fuel hoses) regardless of whether they are causing problems right now, simply as a preventative measure?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Cowboy View Post
    wow..... I could not have asked for a better, more thorough response, I appreciate it! I will try that as soon as I get my hands on it again. Would you recommend changing out those parts anyway (the metal solenoid and the gray tempo fuel hoses) regardless of whether they are causing problems right now, simply as a preventative measure?
    Absolutely replace the fuel hoses and solenoid.

  5. #5
    Ok. Just ordered the plastic solenoid and 25ft of fuel line... and if it doesn't crank then it is likely the LR-502?

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Cowboy View Post
    ... if it doesn't crank then it is likely the LR-502?
    Diagnostics is a process. Work through step by step.

    Eventually the culprit will become more obvious.

    Note that it is common for more than one problem to be occurring at the same time. Do not be surprised if you find and fix something and it still is not 100%

  7. #7
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    I had the starter solenoid go bad on my Gen and got absolutely nothing when depressing the start/stop button. I was out on the water, but luckily K came to the rescue with the screwdriver across the solenoid Idea.

    A few times the electrical connector going to the starter solenoid has wiggled and not made good contact and not allowed the solenoid to get the voltage required to close the solenoid. Not even a click.

    Hope this helps.

  8. #8
    Okay......
    so continuing with this project, I got the newer sea-doo solenoid and went to go remove the old one. I took some pictures as I went through and had more questions that I knew I would need to post here...

    The first problem I ran into is also the last problem I ran into because it pretty much halted my ability to continue with the diagnostics... and here it is...
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    the one on the left is the one that came out, the one on the right is the one thats supposed to go in... the problem is the two leads on the original is not the same kind of interface as the new one. The new one seems like it needs to mate up with the right plug (which seems a lot smarter than squirting blobs of silicone caulk onto the leads like the original). My question is... where do I get this plug part? what is the correct part for this?

    second question... this is kind of random, but I have to know what this is supposed to do...
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    it says "PUSH BUTTON TO RESET ELECTRICAL SYSTEM" and the button it refers to is around the side in the second pic...
    My question is, what does this button actually do? what will happen if I press it? and when would I (or anyone) need to use this?

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    The solenoid you are removing is NOT genuine Polaris. It is a hack installation of some generic solenoid. Someone cut off the original Polaris connector.

    The correct Polaris solenoid has the 'mushroom' style 2-pin sealed connector. More on that in a moment.


    This is indeed a Polaris OEM solenoid, but it is of the original design, long since updated to a much newer and better version. The current replacement part is entirely molded black plastic with no metal mounting bracket. If that solenoid you have there is indeed brand new and unused (so roughly ten years old, but never used) it will be OK for a while.

    The reason the original with metal backing plate was deprecated is that the internal seal would fail and it would corrode internally (but invisible from the outside). It would look just fine and work OK until one day it just stops working properly. In some cases when it fails it does so with the starter motor continuously engaged! This of course burns out the starter motor and often ruins the battery at the same time. There is no way to stop it without unbolting a battery cable.

    See this link for more info on the start solenoid, and other useful info

    I just recently was on the hunt for the exact same connector you now need to repair your wire harness and plug into your new solenoid. Actually, I needed the mating connector, but along the way we determined that the wire harness connector is known as a 2 Way Black Metri-Pack 150.2 Sealed Female Connector Assembly 12162193



    These connectors are used on multiple car models for several purposes. The connector pins are known as a pull-to-seat type and go in from the front of the connector.

    Here is one source;
    http://www.repairconnector.com/gm-2-...sor-connector/

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Cowboy View Post
    ... I have to know what this is supposed to do...
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    it says "PUSH BUTTON TO RESET ELECTRICAL SYSTEM" and the button it refers to is around the side in the second pic...

    My question is, what does this button actually do? what will happen if I press it? and when would I (or anyone) need to use this? ...
    Polaris simply renamed the Circuit Breaker as a Reset button

    In normal operation the white button never pops up. If there was a short circuit that exceeded 15 Amps then the breaker is supposed to trip and the button would pop up under the flexible plastic dome. To restore electrical power you would need to press the button back down (where it should stay latched). Of course, if the short circuit is still occurring the breaker will just pop out again.

    I dont think I have ever needed to press the 'Reset Button' on an operational watercraft.

    The important thing is to make sure the plastic dome is snugly screwed down (to keep water out of the breaker) and the breaker body is not physically damaged. Sometimes the plastic threads crack just inside the electrical box.

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