Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
  1. #1
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Elephant Butte New Mexico
    Posts
    6,520
    +1
    1,268

    Ethanol free fuel..in one quart cans?

    well I see that the ethanol lobby wins again and now E15 may be appearing at your favorite filling hole soon... and now to counter this move Briggs and Straton is now marketing a line of fuel for small engines :

    IN 1 QUART CANS!

    INSTEAD OF

    FIGHTING THE EPA

    They said "screw it ..we can make even more money selling special fuel for our special engines.

    On the plus side it's going to be easier then ever to kill yourself as these old one quart cans of gas are forgotten in the storage bins of riding mowers and cars everywhere..until a jack handle or something else puts a hole in the can///not to mention ALL THOSE cans ending up in landfills with residual amounts of fuel insiode of them. And they made me take my septic tank out a couple of years ago "to protect the groundwater"

    It was like in 70's when I found out any old kerosene would work in my heater and I didn't have to spend $6 a gallon on the "superpure stuff"

    http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/shop/canned-fuel


    http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/a...15/e15-mmp.htm

    I figure I can boil the ethanol out of a gallon of gas by putting it in a good solid pot on top of my electric hotplate.(*)

    Making biodiesel seems safer to me then a million quart cans of gasoline coming to market. I just love handling heated lye that is under pressure.

    I'm surprised the department of homeland security is even allowing this....

    (*) this was sarcastic humor, NEVER heat gasoline on a hotplate.

    I kinda had a better time last week fighting a cold that wouldn't stop making me wish duck hunting season was over already so I could shave off my duck dynasty/zz top beard.
    Last edited by nmpeter; 11-04-2013 at 06:44 PM. Reason: added epa link


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,584
    +1
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by EPA E15-MMP
    ... Retail stations that wish to use this new configuration must provide a fuel pump with at least one dedicated hose and nozzle dispensing a gasoline-ethanol blended fuel containing no more than 10 volume percent ethanol (i.e. E10 or lower). These retail stations must also prominently affix a new label to its blender pumps which says “Passenger Vehicles Only. Use in Other Vehicles, Engines and Equipment May Violate Federal Law.”

    Passenger vehicles in this context do not include nonroad vehicles, engines, and equipment (e.g. marine engines, motorcycles, ATVs, lawnmowers, etc.). Retails stations must also post additional signage informing consumers of the availability and location of the dedicated E10 (or lower) fuel pump.

    EPA believes that this new configuration is suitable for dispensing E15.

    Since retail stations using this new configuration would re-direct customers with vehicles, engines, and equipment not covered by the E15 partial waivers to a dedicated fuel pump that exclusively dispenses E10 or fuel containing less than 10 percent ethanol by volume, those customers would not inadvertently misfuel their vehicles, engines, and equipment from a hose that dispensed both E10 and E15 from a blender pump. Therefore, EPA has approved the configuration for general use.

    ...
    So the EPA is predicting how the population will act when presented with this new label and signage. Well, at least they say they believe

    I wonder what the label will be on the lonely 'special' pump that delivers E10 or better gasoline?

    How many people will realize that the For Passenger Vehicles label actually means this is the lowest quality fuel we sell. There is slightly less crappy gasoline over there at that special pump.
    Last edited by K447; 11-05-2013 at 11:44 AM.

  3. #3
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Elephant Butte New Mexico
    Posts
    6,520
    +1
    1,268
    the entire blender pump issue is simply crazy..they might as well put diesel into he same blender pump. Bottom line however..the more crappy fuel they sell to the uninformed,. the better is is for my business.

    Now before anybody goes off on me, I did my part, I wrote the EPA, my letter got published and picked up by other organizations and then I got death threats from cowards, who I assume had financial interests in ethanol who thought they could hide behind a random IP address.

    I'm hoping these cans are heavy duty and so overpriced that they will be a total fail. Otherwise we'll hear about strings of problems caused by these cans being punctured and causing fires.

    If you read the articles you'll note that the new "warning" stickers are 3x3 INCHES..crap the sign on the pumps at our local station that say "Please don't clean spilled fuel on the side of your truck with the windshield squeegee" are 6 x18 inches.

    It's a secret plan ( ok here comes the tinfoil) to begin destroying all pre 1997 cars and trucks so Detroit an sell a few more.

    My obvious solution when I'm appointed head of the EPA is to ban the manufacture or import of any vehicle with four or more wheels that cannot use E85.

    E85 only adds a couple of thousand to the cost of a new truck or car. You want to shove ethanol down our throats..please do it all at once.

    When I wrote the EPA a couple of years back I proposed a 2020-2025 deadline for this change over to E85 for all vehicles.

    And you think the blender pumps won't start malfunctioning after exposure to E15?

    Ever see the insides of one of those pumps..a nuke reactor has less plumbing

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,584
    +1
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by nmpeter View Post
    ... Briggs and Straton is now marketing a line of fuel for small engines :

    IN 1 QUART CANS! ...

    They said "screw it ..we can make even more money selling special fuel for our special engines."

    ...

    http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/shop/canned-fuel


    ...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PRN23-BRIGGS-AND-STRATTON-CORP-ETHANOL-FREE-FUEL-1y-2High.jpg 
Views:	234 
Size:	81.5 KB 
ID:	317932

    What price for this stuff?

    Is it actually for sale now?


    I see the Briggs & Stratton 795161 Gasohol Tester is priced accordingly

    This is interesting;
    Ethanol Fuel Test Swab Gasoline test kits from Mechanic In The Bottle are simple-to-use. 4 easy steps.
    Just dip 1 of the test swabs into the gas for 10 seconds, let air dry for 2 to 5 minutes, compare swab to the chart on the canister and follow recommendations.

    Now you can see if the fuel is marginal or stale even though it doesn't smell that bad. (Ethanol masks the scent of decomposing fuel).

    100 test swabs per can.
    Last edited by K447; 11-05-2013 at 12:11 PM.

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,584
    +1
    1,272
    VP Racing Fuels has entered into an agreement with Briggs & Stratton (B&S), the world’s largest manufacturer of gasoline powered engines for outdoor power equipment, to provide Briggs & Stratton-branded fuel for gasoline powered engines. VP will produce three blends – an ethanol-free fuel for 4-cycle engines and two pre-mixed gas + oil blends (40:1 & 50:1) for 2-cycles.

    Each is formulated to include Briggs & Stratton’s Advanced Formula Fuel Treatment & Stabilizer and will be packaged in quarts, gallons, 5-gallon pails and 54-gallon drums.

    ...

    B&S-branded Small Engine Fuel will be available for order by dealers effective immediately, for shipment in January 2014
    Seems like it is an extension of this product line;

    VP Small Engine Fuel 4-Cycle 94 Octane Ethanol Free (8-Pack)

    Is 8 US quarts for $47.50 a good price?

    Is this stuff dyed or is the on-road-use tax included?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fa7a05c4-d2de-4a6c-a5b2-e1495d7453ae_1000.jpg 
Views:	66 
Size:	59.7 KB 
ID:	317933

  6. #6
    Cliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    207
    +1
    24
    If you look at the water type ethanol testers apparently the ethanol mixes with the water in the bottom of the test jar. If this works then you could take a clear gallon jug add a little water, then fill with gas, shake it up and once the ethanol falls out take a tube and suck the alcohol out. It would take a little time but much better than 6 or 7 dollars a quart for this stuff !

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,584
    +1
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    If you look at the water type ethanol testers apparently the ethanol mixes with the water in the bottom of the test jar. If this works then you could take a clear gallon jug add a little water, then fill with gas, shake it up and once the ethanol falls out take a tube and suck the alcohol out. It would take a little time but much better than 6 or 7 dollars a quart for this stuff !
    Yes, you can use water to drive the ethanol out of the gasoline. This is called phase separation. The phase separated stuff sitting at the bottom is not useful for anything once it has phase separated.

    The problem is the resulting gasoline (after you extract the ethanol+water) will be 3-5 octane points LOWER than the original blended fuel was. So E-10 gasoline that was rated 87 octane becomes non-ethanol gasoline with 83-84 octane

    I expect E-15 gasoline would have even lower octane after extracting the ethanol.

  8. #8
    Banned User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee WI
    Posts
    16,708
    +1
    1,324
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    If you look at the water type ethanol testers apparently the ethanol mixes with the water in the bottom of the test jar. If this works then you could take a clear gallon jug add a little water, then fill with gas, shake it up and once the ethanol falls out take a tube and suck the alcohol out. It would take a little time but much better than 6 or 7 dollars a quart for this stuff !
    Yes, you can use water to drive the ethanol out of the gasoline. This is called phase separation. The phase separated stuff sitting at the bottom is not useful for anything once it has phase separated.

    The problem is the resulting gasoline (after you extract the ethanol+water) will be 3-5 octane points LOWER than the original blended fuel was. So E-10 gasoline that was rated 87 octane becomes non-ethanol gasoline with 83-84 octane

    I expect E-15 gasoline would have even lower octane after extracting the ethanol.

    So you have to buy premium to do this with.

  9. #9
    ecpChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ocean county nj
    Posts
    2,912
    +1
    427
    If you boil off the ethanol from 93 octane fuel, which you couldn't do anyway, it would be between 90.4 and 91.4 octane.
    If you are that concerned, VP has a few different fuels that you can buy from about 65-85$ for 5 gallons. Any of these aftermarket fuels typically won't have the detergents that pump has would have FYI. You could also just buy straight leaded nav gas from an airport or just ride more/worry less and put e10-e15 in.
    I recommend ms109. It's 104 octane and has mtbe to oxygenate it instead of ethanol. Waste unless you are running big boost/ timing though

  10. #10
    This is how I run a jetski shop in the desert nmpeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Elephant Butte New Mexico
    Posts
    6,520
    +1
    1,268
    I guess the MTBE ban was for general motor fuels..MTBE is really nasty stuff.

    I guess if you want to pay $24 a gallon for specialty fuels then go for it.

    I'm fortunate enough to have multiple no-ethanol fuel sources around here..

    hey..maybe I should get some five gallon cans and.......

    the boiling off was a joke..I'll assume you skimmed.

    Ethanol " test kits" have been around for a while. They should sell for $5

    You can accomplish the same thing with any sealable glass container and a few hours of time.

    My point here was to continue to inform on ethanol issues..this time E15 and what small engine companies are doing about iit.

    I guess that lobby isn't big or well organized.

    My solution works for everybody.

    Remember when r12 became like heroin and you havd to convert to r134 or go broke every time your a/c needed repair>

    I see a market for ethanol conversion kits for fuel injected cars down the road.

    It would not take the parting of the great lakes to have vendors come up with an E85 system for a PWC that would simply sample the fuel going out of the pump and adjust parameters accordingly.

    If you see how flexible ( sorry) the e85 engine control systems are you'd be wondering why we're not there on engines certainly large enough to power a car.

    The e85 issue is all about infrastructure. They can jam e15 where they think they can, but station owners who pay bills are going to be mighty unhappy having pumps that need repairs and retrofits to handle e15.

    Remember how hard it was to buy diesel back in the day? VW changed all of that and suddenly stations saw business driving buy, so they opted to install a new island just for diesel.

    maybe it's time to convert those islands to E85?

    E10 is manageable if you keep water/moisture exposure to minimums, which means filling your fuel tank at the end of every outing. I don't fret much when I have to put e10 in my truck..but I put ethanol free in if I can.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Ethanol Free fuel
    By DonHy in forum Canada Rides
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-07-2017, 10:21 AM
  2. Ethanol Free Fuel in Houston, TX (Coldspring, TX)
    By macGruber in forum Open Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-11-2015, 07:21 PM
  3. 00' gpr no fuel in one cylinder
    By Luv2Gofast in forum Yamaha PWC Performance (2-stroke)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-18-2015, 06:45 PM
  4. STX 15F, two fuel pumps in one week? Any one else have this?
    By thetolleyman in forum Kawasaki PWC Performance (4-stroke)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-09-2013, 02:28 AM
  5. How far can I go with 40 litres of fuel in my Waveblaster 2?
    By jetskicam in forum Yamaha Old School Skis
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-31-2012, 05:31 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •