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  1. #1

    E-85 GPR, is it possible ??

    Hello My name is Sam and I am new to the fourms. I am in the process of building a 1390 triple piper and was thinking of running e-85. I have done some research and it seems that it may be possible. Please anyone that thinks otherwise let me know, im looking for some good input here. Here is what know.

    E-85 produces only 72% of gasolines power, so it needs 27% more fuel
    E-85 is 105 octane
    E-85 get 30% less fuel milage, but if advancing timing only 25% less
    E-85 is harmful to rubber parts
    E-85 is quite hydroscopic, meaning it picks up water from the atmoshere
    E-85 is roughly 25% cheaper than 93 octane

    I figure that e-85 is a cheap race fuel alt. with its 105 octane rating it is like race gas,, allowing me to run a higher comp ratio and adv timing. I figure that if I increase my jet dia by 13% ,run race fuel heads , r+d cdi on race fuel setting, and tygon fuel lines it just may work. I know Klotz makes oil that will work.could it be this simple?? here are my unanswered questions.

    Do you think that the fuel pumps and carbs gaskets will be affected by the high alcohol concentration??
    Will my tank collect water from the outside air or can this be kept under control by adding a little extra heat here and there, or mabe just pulling a little fuel off the bottom of the tank from time to time.
    E-85 has a cleaning effect on parts, will my engine internally rust when not in use??
    Please any input would be great, has anyone tried e-85 in a jet ski or am I the 1st ?? I read online of a 600 hp airplane engine that ran 100aa fuel was converted to e-85 and with new timing and fuel curves makes 650hp on e-85 thats over 8% power gain, just food for thought. please let me know what you think?? I would also like to say thanks to all fourm members, I have found countless posts that have been helpful for my gpr .. Thanks Sam


  2. #2
    Hydrotoys's Avatar
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    Welcome Sam,

    I think you have a bunch of questions, and not a lot of folks to give any hard evidence. There is a major chance that YOU will be the first to let US know.

    Everything I read in your notes, tells me that E85 is very similar (in characteristics only) to alcohol. If this is the case, then i'm sure it will run great, as soon as you work out the details of jetting, etc...

    You mentioned the cleaning effect. Is the 1211 sealant used on cases good enough to deal with e85? What about the front/rear seals? Will you be changing them out frequently to combat the fatigue?

    Is it really worth all this work, for just saving a few bucks on race gas? That would be my question.

  3. #3
    I posted the same question a while back but I cant find it in the search.
    I had some good feedback and came to the conclusion that it wasnt a good Idea. I wish I could find the post because I cant remember the exact deal breaker for me. I think it had something to do with its cleaning nature would basicly strip the oil from the cylinders in the 2-stroke and you had to treat with a foaming oil every time you ride or it would rust or dry the cylinder causing damage on start up.

    In short, It wasnt worth the effort.

  4. #4
    MR. SCOVILLE UNIT SUCKMYWAKE's Avatar
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    yes sam, welcome the the forum.

    you sound like a highly intelligent and motivated individual. we have alot of those here. i am guessing you are outside the united states. as far as the e-85 goes, i dont think it would be too feasible to change basically the whole design of the fuel system and what is required to run with regular gasoline. i.e. hoses, seals, tank, etc. i think its a major undertaking and not enough viable information to pertain to our type of watercraft.

    but, it sounds like you have a mindset, so good luck

  5. #5
    Doctor 05gtxsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porksword View Post
    I posted the same question a while back but I cant find it in the search.
    I had some good feedback and came to the conclusion that it wasnt a good Idea. I wish I could find the post because I cant remember the exact deal breaker for me. I think it had something to do with its cleaning nature would basicly strip the oil from the cylinders in the 2-stroke and you had to treat with a foaming oil every time you ride or it would rust or dry the cylinder causing damage on start up.

    In short, It wasnt worth the effort.
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16500
    I found your thread .....Hope it helps

  6. #6
    Thanks for all the input,
    I did not even think about the 1211 sealer. I think for now it is in my best interest to run race fuel to dial the machine in. but I still would like to try e-85 I am going to do some more research, maybe soak some seals and gaskets in e85 for a month or two and fill a fuel pump. And I am going to call klotz and ask them about there oil, I wonder if the oil will keep a film over the motor or just run down the walls becasue of the ethonal, even if fogging is req its not a real big deal I do not ride it regularly and usually fog it anyway.
    Also I do not want to run ethonal just to save a buck. E-85 has cooler combustion temp, is clean burning to both engine and envirment. and should make some good power... It would be sweet to have a 85mph ski powered on corn. If the seals and other parts hold up I am going to give it a shot. I live outside of chicago so I still have some time before I can ride..please more input......... Thanks guys... Sam
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 05gtxsc View Post
    http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16500
    I found your thread .....Hope it helps

    Thanks 05gtxsc.

    Sam, if you try it keep us posted. One question though, if you dont ride it very often then why not just run race fuel? I would think with the cost involved in converting and running special oils and extra PM you would need to run ALOT of E-85 to make up the price difference. Just a thought, if you still want to do it, we will help you if we can.

  8. #8
    My ski is already set up to run race fuel so the curves and compression SHOULD work for e-85, all i have to do is rejet, I already have a alum pickup. the only thing that is more money is the fuel line, maybe about $100 more then the reg stuff. The oil is klotz Benol, it is a castor oil. I also here castor 927 will work, these oils are no more money then the r-50 i already use. The cost of converting for me would be very cheap, I am still planning on starting out with std 100 suneco fuel, My boat is apart right now so I filled a pump and carb with E-85 also threw some seals in a jar along with some carbs seals and n/s i had laying around. I still have to test the 1211 some how or find something that will work for the cases.only time will tell. I am going to continue testing, I hope that its possible, I work a lot in the summer as I am a jet ski tech, so I am lucky if I ride it once a week. Last year I burned down the pto piston after leaving maybe 5 gals of 100 fuel in it for 2 wks with another 5 fresh on top but man she was pulling good before it blew. Ive heard that e-85 is more stable and should be better for for storage periods? I hope so. I will keep you guys updated, Thanks for the input, I read Hondas new indy car is 650hp powered on pure ethonol. Thank Sam

  9. #9
    My son (mohawk man) jeffsntx's Avatar
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    I used to run 100% ethanol in a dirt track car. It is very hard on rubber seals and fuel line. It does not store very well because it will absorb moisture. They make a top end lubricant that you would want to mix with the ethanol WITH the premix oil. It is VERY dry and if you guess wrong on the jetting you will have a big mess on your hands. I really dont thin that it would work well in a 2 stroke because of the fuel having to go through the cases and it will eat the crank seals. If you decide to go for it be sure you jet it REALLY rich. If you go lean it will take no time at all to melt parts. Good luck and let us know what happens if you pursue this project.

  10. #10
    My son (mohawk man) jeffsntx's Avatar
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    One more thing to add. Ethanol LOVES compression, and with ethanol the cylinder temps will drop dramaticly. So I guess you could say that compression loves ethanol too.

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