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  1. #1
    My name is Sean and I am addicted to STXs smokeysevin's Avatar
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    Official Lube Thread

    The one and only place for discussing lube, oil, grease, "warming liquids", slippery stuff, and any and all other things lubricant related.

    Yes, it has come to this, unless the specific thread you are posting in requires a post about lube stop cluttering up stuff with unrelated posts.

    Sean


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbreaksalot View Post
    The problem with Motorcycle oils is they typically have friction modifiers for the clutch assy

    and that's a unwanted additive for our engines in my opinion
    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...9&Searchpage=3

    Much confusion has abounded in the relationship between Anti-Wear (AW) or Extreme Pressure properties, and Friction Modifiers (FM). Both friction modifiers and Anti-Wear compounds both operate in the Boundary lubrication regime. AW additives are among the type of compounds that provide good boundary lubrication. Such materials as ZDDP, sulfurized fats and esters, organometallic compounds (such as Molybdenum dithiophosphates, Molybdenum dithiocarbamates, Antimony dithiocarbamates) have shown their ability to build and maintain strong boundary lubrication films under severe load conditions and heat. However, with the exception of second-generation gear oils, the older first-generation AW additives had little FM capabilities.

    The critical difference between AW/EP additive films and FM films is in their mechanical properties. AW/EP films are semiplastic deposits which are hard to shear off. Thus, under shearing conditions, their coefficient of friction is moderately to high. The exceptions are the organometallic compounds listed above. Friction modification films consist of orderly, close-packed arrays of multimolecular "whiskers," loosely adhering to each other. The outer layers are sheared-off easily, allowing for low coefficient of friction. The phenomena can be described as a deck of plastic coated playing cards lying on the table and sliding off the top card easily.
    Amsoil 10w-40 doesn't contain FMs anyway

    http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=MCFQT-EA

    In high heat conditions, engine protection is not sacrificed with AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. It has the best high temperature film strength (see High Temperature Viscosity Protection graph below) of all oils tested and contains a heavy treatment of anti-wear additives to reduce wear regardless of the operating conditions (see Wear Comparison graph at right). AMSOIL 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is thermally (heat) stable and contains maximum levels of oxidation inhibitor additives. It is extremely resistant to breakdown and engineered to prevent damaging sludge and carbon deposits for superior engine cleanliness.

    AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
    In standardized tests, Amsoil is consistently top rated
    Last edited by fcr100098; 12-24-2013 at 12:25 AM.

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  4. #3
    Vman's Avatar
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    It's only fitting that the guy who knows the most about oil be the first to post on the Official Lube Thread!

    Ps: The new moderator is really taking the bull by the horns and making some impressive moves.

  5. #4
    Take the time to smile sirbreaksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fcr100098 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sirbreaksalot View Post
    The problem with Motorcycle oils is they typically have friction modifiers for the clutch assy

    and that's a unwanted additive for our engines in my opinion
    Friction modifiers generally make the oil more "slippery" and would be considered a good thing for high rpm operation

    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...9&Searchpage=3

    Much confusion has abounded in the relationship between Anti-Wear (AW) or Extreme Pressure properties, and Friction Modifiers (FM). Both friction modifiers and Anti-Wear compounds both operate in the Boundary lubrication regime. AW additives are among the type of compounds that provide good boundary lubrication. Such materials as ZDDP, sulfurized fats and esters, organometallic compounds (such as Molybdenum dithiophosphates, Molybdenum dithiocarbamates, Antimony dithiocarbamates) have shown their ability to build and maintain strong boundary lubrication films under severe load conditions and heat. However, with the exception of second-generation gear oils, the older first-generation AW additives had little FM capabilities.

    The critical difference between AW/EP additive films and FM films is in their mechanical properties. AW/EP films are semiplastic deposits which are hard to shear off. Thus, under shearing conditions, their coefficient of friction is moderately to high. The exceptions are the organometallic compounds listed above. Friction modification films consist of orderly, close-packed arrays of multimolecular "whiskers," loosely adhering to each other. The outer layers are sheared-off easily, allowing for low coefficient of friction. The phenomena can be described as a deck of plastic coated playing cards lying on the table and sliding off the top card easily.
    Amsoil 10w-40 is very popular with sportbikes, and the engines spin up to 17,000 rpm - if it was causing problems, no one would be using it
    http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=MCFQT-EA

    In high heat conditions, engine protection is not sacrificed with AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. It has the best high temperature film strength (see High Temperature Viscosity Protection graph below) of all oils tested and contains a heavy treatment of anti-wear additives to reduce wear regardless of the operating conditions (see Wear Comparison graph at right). AMSOIL 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is thermally (heat) stable and contains maximum levels of oxidation inhibitor additives. It is extremely resistant to breakdown and engineered to prevent damaging sludge and carbon deposits for superior engine cleanliness.
    In standardized tests, Amsoil is consistently top rated
    Mark !!

    if you actually understood real world mechanics,over theory cut and paste

    you would have realised I said CLUTCH friction modifiers...

    Totally different to friction modifiers for metallic components that in certain application that can be a good thing

    1st example is if you use a heavy friction modified oil in a seadoo or yammi it will kill the clutch

    so basically what I am saying is their is a point were friction stops and failure begins....... and I have just spent 1/2 hr looking at my 310x and cant see the clutchs

    I have seen too many glazed bores because some clown went ape shit on oil quality and stuffed the engine ..........( massive blowby )

    Waz
    Last edited by sirbreaksalot; 12-24-2013 at 02:22 AM.

  6. #5
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    Updated my post, Amsoil 10w-40 doesn't have FMs, and they would not be expected to improve clutch operation, anyway, since a slicker oil is worse for clutch actuation.

    Shear stability is important for motorcycles where the oil must lubricate gears in the transmission, but my experience is none of these lower viscosity multi-grade synthetics last long when exposed to shear forces in a transmission, it's a poor compromise. The priiority has to be the engine, and Amsoil 10w-40 motorcycle oil shines here, with superb high temp film strength. On short, Amsoil 10w-40 motorcycle oil is an excellent choice for the 300X engine.

    If the cylinders were glazed your customers probably used a synthetic with FMs for break-in.
    Last edited by fcr100098; 12-24-2013 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #6
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    vasoline is good

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  9. #7
    Pain is fear leaving your body.... rlovebk's Avatar
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    10/40 Mobil 1 on NA skis. 10/40 Valvoline dino juice on the rest. Maxima Gold 2 stroke and Maxima waterproof grease bearings/cables.

  10. #8
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    Just saying "pet oil x is good" based on nothing is meaningless. Post the independent testing to prove it. TBN? Shear testing? Standard M1 is medicore at best, Mobil 1 EP is a good product. Amsoil and some Motul products are almost always at or near the top. Running a conventional oil in this ski is crazy.

    http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/

  11. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by fcr100098 View Post
    Just saying "pet oil x is good" based on nothing is meaningless. Post the independent testing to prove it. TBN? Shear testing? Standard M1 is medicore at best, Mobil 1 EP is a good product. Amsoil and some Motul products are almost always at or near the top. Running a conventional oil in this ski is crazy.

    http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/
    looks like BMW, Ford and even some V8 super cars know jack shit about oil

    Ask yourself a simple question, Kawasaki doesn't manufacture oil, why would they not rebadge any oil they liked as Kawasaki branded oil. You really are a few cents short of a dollar.

    http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=6008468







  12. #10
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    Std M1 isn't bad, it's just not the best. The Extended Performance product fairs considerably better in standardized tests. As far as rebadged "Kawasaki oil", that's a completely different topic, use or non-use of Kawasaki rebadged oil was never even a topic of discussion. Castrol Edge is a good product.

    Royal Purple is a hugely over-hyped oil.

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