06-09-2014, 10:25 PM #1
MSX 150 Complete overhaul. advice and information needed.
Hi there I am new to the hulk and glad to be here.
Now on to the details. A friend and myself have goten two msx 150s. The previous owner partially dissassembled the engine and realized he was in waaaaay over his head. So he added marvel mystery oil to prevent rust and that was that. Fast forward three years. The engine needs to be rebuilt and all the little internal issues that fail like the water pump gear oil pump, oil cooler.... It amazingly is not rusted at all and all parts are there. it has like 60 hours. The reason the idiot took it apart was he overfilled it and blew oil everywhere, then let it sit in salt water swelling the housing to the impeller. So he thought it was blown.
Here is the engine bay
Now ski number two was the same but idiot did not mess with this one and I reboared the housing and used the ski for all last year, maybe 100 hours. This year I got an oil light and it went to clanging like hell. Sounds like a rod but could be many things in this engine. So a full rebuild and maybe a few internal parts as well. And the engine bay on this one is much nicer although I think it will cost more to rebuild.
Here they are on this very fine overly done trailer. Think I will sell the trailer for rebuild funds as we are splitting up the skis.
I am hoping "ripcuda" I think that was the name given to me by Randy at webber in Washington, can maybe assist. By that I mean do the rebuild
Last edited by hill160881; 06-10-2014 at 10:36 AM.
06-10-2014, 09:21 AM #2
Don't get me wrong. I can do the build myself, but if I could avoid that learning curve it would be great. I understand it's not like any engine I have built before and also there is no engine manual available. Also I am surprised not to find a step by step rebuild thread with pictures?
06-10-2014, 09:36 AM #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
06-10-2014, 10:06 AM #4
Was that a hint hint to do one myself, or a jab? I cant tell. Did I miss something in my research?
Man I really dont have the time to do a full rebuild. Also Randy mentioned if I have no experience with this engine that there is a huge learning curve.
06-10-2014, 10:59 AM #5
Welcome to GH Hill!
You've come to the right place. No better source of knowledge on these rare Weber powered skis anywhere online. You've also reached out and talked to *the* Weber guru and parts guy Randy... so I know your on the right path.
As you are learning... these 4 stroke Webers are a unique and rare breed. There just aren't that many of them out there to begin with... and sadly with a number of common issues that plague them (all fixable/preventable)... many don't make to to a long and useful life... and end up parted-out or parked.
There is a learning curve with anything new. The troubleshooting/diagnosing of the Webers can be tricky... since we don't have any sort of code readers. But when it comes to rebuilding the engine... it's no different than a twin cylinder motorcycle or half a 4 cylinder car engine. The tips and tricks are mostly at getting the bugger out of the hull... a huge PITA. And a few tips for disassembly/reassembly to make things easier. There are good service manuals out there too with lots of pictures.
I've had the fun of rebuilding and upgrading quite a few of these Webers (MSXs & Hydrospaces)... so yeah... I know my way around them. If your comfortable at wrenching... and have rebuilt any engines in the past... this shouldn't be out of your league.
That first ski (disassembled one)... your next step is just to pull the engine. Can't do any diagnosing in that state. I'm curious how the head was removed... I'm guessing the engine has been lifted to get the head off... then just sat back down on it's mounts. That engine will need a full disassembly and inspection. The crank and bearings would be my biggest concern... if is sat w/o a head for any length of time. Upon full disassembly, you can inspect all mechanical stuff... it's just the electrical stuff you won't know about since you didn't do any diagnosing back when it was still running.
The second ski... "clanking"... yeah that's not good. Sounds like it's gonna need to pull this engine too to first get the head off and inspect the cylinders. Could be a rod let go. Was it run low on oil? Was there foam/froth in the oil? What oil were you using?
I think a big question you need to ask yourself... is what are they worth to you? A decent rebuild with a sleeved block, new pistons, a few upgrades, etc... is going to run ~$2500+ in just parts... per engine. Not many folks will drop that $$ into a ski that will only be worth $3500 (varies by area) when good and running.
If you decide to tackle this... we'll be here to help and advise.
06-10-2014, 11:29 AM #6
Some of the parts from ski #1
The head looks great.
The cam is not so good
The rocker arms are a maybe.
Whatever this rod is is toast.
This one went from going 60+ and 7400 rpm to this in a second. The funny part I was only crusing about 45 when it happened. Low oil pressure light came on and...... I use a 15/50 synthetic blend and change the oil every tank of gas or two. No foam in the oil. I am very meticulous.
This is what it sounds like. haha not good. Probably will need a few internal parts.
Yep I am going to do this. I love this ski and HATE SEA-DOO. The milage is another pluss to consider. Twice the fuel expense is HUGE. I literally live on the water on my big boat.
06-10-2014, 11:41 AM #7
The head looks okay... needs checked for flatness. And inspect the cam journals and items on the top.
I wouldn't use that cam or any of those rocker arms. That rod goes thru the cam... it's unusable as well.
I'm thinking your diagnosis sounds correct. Especially when you said the oil pressure light came on when it happened... sounds rod related.
06-10-2014, 11:58 AM #8
I am not so worried about the crank on ski #1 as long as the bearing surfaces are not rusted. i can rubber coat/ e-tape the areas that are sensitive and have the crank blasted. This may be hopeful thinking but I have done this on motorcycles that were full of water.
I will start removing the rest of the engine fron ski #1 tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for any and all help.
Ok maybe in the next hour or so. I am impressed at how easy it came out but going back in will be a bi*&%.
So with a human hoist it came out. and the inspection starts.
The lower end is rust free.
Going to need sleaved.
Its small when broken down.
Last edited by hill160881; 06-10-2014 at 03:24 PM.
06-10-2014, 03:25 PM #9
I am not going any further now as the sun is now in the work area, but there is later today.
Later was good.
The love-joy attached to the fly wheel came off with some heat and a large crescent wrench.
And the disassemble went on.
The crank is going to be ok. The two center mains have some water marking but with some lapping belt action they will be fine. The number 1 cylinder had spun the bearing.
The lower case unit
Last edited by hill160881; 06-10-2014 at 09:01 PM.
06-10-2014, 09:02 PM #10
Thats it for today. I will hash out what parts need to be replaced and hopefully get the block shipped out for machine work by early next week.
Sorry for the picture overload
Parts list so far
-Full engine gasket, bearing set
-New/used rocker arms
-new /used cam and shaft
-balancing shaft set for metal water pump gear
-output shaft seal
-new oil canister and items to install
!!!!Anything elese I will need and am missing please feel free to add!!!!!
Last edited by hill160881; 06-10-2014 at 09:27 PM.
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