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  1. #1
    macdoo's Avatar
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    Polaris MSX 140 EMM run hotter?

    I made a call to the person that is in Tx http://fichtemmrepair.com that fixes EMMs and he stated that the MSX 140 EMM run much hotter that ones in other models. That they should have there own cooling line to them. The MSX i have has 203 hr on it is that near the end of the EMMs life. I thought I may have seen a link on the water line for the MSX EMM so maybe this has been addressed already. Thanks for your thoughts and input.


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    I shall admit I have not compared actual internal operating temperatures or water exit temperatures between the MSX 140 EMM and the Virage or Genesis Ficht EMM. If there is a difference, I do not know by how much.

    I did add an external pisser exit to my otherwise stock MSX 140 EMM water cooling. I did not do this to change the EMM temperatures, merely to be able to confirm that overall water flow was happening, for the engine and the EMM.

    The stock MSX 140 does have differences in how the pressurized water feed from the jet pump is routed and split off to feed the EMM, compared to the Virage TXi and Genesis i.

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    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdoo View Post
    ... The MSX i have has 203 hr on it is that near the end of the EMMs life...
    Are you saying the EMM needs internal component repair, or some other problem?

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    macdoo's Avatar
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    I was told because they run hotter they wear out quicker. That if you ever get a back fire on a 140 the EMM is about to go. http://fichtemmrepair.com said they were a nightmare and as I recall he said the MSX ran at 160 F and the Virage ran at 120 F so the extra heat cooked the 140 faster. Now I am thinking if I want to keep the MSX I have with 203 hr on it?

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    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdoo View Post
    I was told because they run hotter they wear out quicker.

    That if you ever get a back fire on a 140 the EMM is about to go.

    http://fichtemmrepair.com said they were a nightmare and as I recall he said the MSX ran at 160 F and the Virage ran at 120 F so the extra heat cooked the 140 faster. Now I am thinking if I want to keep the MSX I have with 203 hr on it?
    Any Polaris Ficht engine that backfires probably needs the EMM repaired. The internal C89 capacitor eventually dies from old age and the ignition timing goes crazy.

    The stock water routing on all Ficht engines runs the water first through the water jacket for the flywheel cover and then through the EMM. I suppose one could create a separate water feed just for the EMM and then figure out where to dump two separate water exits instead of the single exhaust hull fitting the stock configuration uses.

    I posted how I did the pisser exit on my MSX 140. With the pisser for the EMM water exit added the stock exhaust hose fitting could be used to exit the flywheel water jacket flow.

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    macdoo's Avatar
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    So could one put a T or Y in the water line and redirect the new line to go to the EMM so it would run cooler? It seems the extra pisser would not be needed unless you just wabted to make sure there was water flow and sand had not blocked the line. Could you make a simple drawing showing what lines would be used?

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    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdoo View Post
    So could one put a T or Y in the water line and redirect the new line to go to the EMM so it would run cooler? It seems the extra pisser would not be needed unless you just wanted to make sure there was water flow and sand had not blocked the line. Could you make a simple drawing showing what lines would be used?
    If you install a tee in the small hose you effectively divide the water flow in half for each side of the tee. If you want to maintain the same water flow rate through the EMM the connection may need to be where there is a large supply hose with enough pressure and flow to supply both the EMM and the flywheel water jacket.

    Then you have two water exits, one from the water jacket and one from the EMM. If those are tee'd together then there is a flow restriction. Separate exits would seem preferable.

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    macdoo's Avatar
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    Is 203 hr on a EMM tooooo many?

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    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow How long does a Polaris Ficht EMM last?

    Quote Originally Posted by macdoo View Post
    Is 203 hr on a EMM tooooo many?
    I do not think of EMM trouble in terms of running hours. No mechanical wear like the engine.

    Mostly EMM problems seem to simply be related to age (years) of the EMM and heat abuse, such as running the EMM without water cooling for an extended time.

    My current opinion is that a Polaris Ficht EMM will need the C89 capacitor replaced from time to time (5 to 10 years?) and a handful of other parts inside occasionally need replacement if they fail (IGBT).

    There are several services that can repair these things, and we have been posting some of the how-to info for those who know, or know someone, with electronic component level repair experience.

    Once repaired they tend to work as well as new, and generally last for a bunch of years before next needing attention. I do not have enough statistical data to forecast how long a given EMM or repaired EMM should last.

    The existing Polaris Ficht EMM are between 10 and 15 years old (sold new from 1999 to 2004) plus service replacement EMM that were available new for a while after 2004.

    At this point in time, I generally assume most EMM either have been repaired or will need repair. Not all of them will fail but the trend seems to point towards more originals needing repair as they get even older.

    To compare with a carburetor model, 5-10 years of no carb rebuilds. Replacement carburetor CDI (as repair is generally not possible) cost about the same as an EMM repair. The Ficht engines generally have rather good fuel consumption so there is a savings in fuel costs over time.
    Last edited by K447; 06-29-2014 at 08:31 PM.

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