06-17-2014, 12:17 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
110, when hits 4500 rpms rev limiter drops it down to idle!
I have a 2004 MSX 110 with 140hrs on it. Runs like a top (except) when ever it reaches 4500 rpm's the limiter kicks in and drops it back down around idle. The check eng. light comes on but with no other code with it. I can shut it down, hold the rest down till it clears then restart. When restart it flashes check eng. for bout a 30 sec's then it disappears. As soon as it reaches 4500/ 4600 round 15 mph it starts all over again and rev limiter takes back over. Any help would be very greatful. As I stated its a 2004 but only has 140 hrs on it so it looks and sound like show room. Except for this problem!!!!!!!
06-17-2014, 12:25 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
I am nowhere close to being an expert on the Weber turbo engine but my understanding, which could be incorrect, is that the Reset button on the NGI display has nothing to do with the engine computer.
On all other Polaris models with Check Engine (Ficht) warning the warning (red flashing light and text message) goes away as soon as the problem cause goes away. The engine computer will store the trouble codes but the NGI display will never show the actual codes, not even when the actual problem is currently happening.
06-17-2014, 01:04 PM #3
What is your oil level? Sounds like over fill to me.
06-17-2014, 01:04 PM #4
The red light flashes from the display at startup are normal. I'm not sure you pressing "reset" is actually clearing anything. Most check engine issues reset automatically after you shut the engine off and restart... then if triggered again will display the check engine indicator and/or flashing light.
Okay... so you can idle and cruise around BELOW ~4500 rpms and the ski runs normal. But when you "get on it" and the rpms jump up to 4500... the ski triggers an error... flashes the check engine indicator... and drops rpms back to idle. Is this correct? When the ECU pulls rpms back to idle... do you have any throttle control? Can you throttle back up to almost 4500 again? Or will it only idle no matter what you do to the throttle?
When the ECU rev-limits... for whatever reason... it limits you to that rpm (like the 3400 rpm limit when in reverse)...so you still have throttle control... but only up to the limited RPM. When you trigger this error at 4500... I'm looking to see what the ECU imposed rev limit is AFTER the error.
4500 RPM rev limit is close to the 4800 RPM limit that the ECU will impose if you overboost. So as you "get on it" the boost goes too high... the ECU triggers overboost (check engine light) and then on (until you turn off and restart) you can't go over 4800 rpms. Is this what you are experiencing? If so... check your wastegate arm on the turbo. These are know to seize and not open and the engine will overboost everytime... until that wastegate arm is freed and movable.
Are you getting any overheat indicators? An overheat will trigger a 1600-1800 rpm rev-limit.
I also have a note of a 1750 rpm rev-limit triggered by an ECU, electronic throttle body(ETB) or pedal position unit (PPU) failure.
06-17-2014, 01:20 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
Thanks for the help so far to all!!! Ripcuda, When it reaches 4500 rpm's I lose all throttle control, no response what so ever from throttle control until I shut it down and restart. After that it starts all over again. Will run fine and response from throttle. When 4500 is hit it loses it all over again. Oil levels are in the good, in between highest low mark and lowest over fill mark. Thats with out the dip stick not screwed in and warmed up.
06-17-2014, 01:35 PM #6
Hmm... that's interesting. Not the usual rev-limiting issue we see.
When did it start doing this? What's the known history of the ski? New to you? Happened the first trip out this season?
Did it start happening after you let some kids take it for a spin? (haha) Was the ski rolled?
Oil level sounds good. Any indication of foam in the oil?
No overheating indicators? It's the thermometer indicator on the display.
Sounds like the ECU is putting you in the limp-home 1750rpm mode.
06-17-2014, 01:39 PM #7
06-17-2014, 02:07 PM #8
Three marks on stick.... MIN, MAX, OVERFILLED.
1. Cold (not started): When cold (not ran)... a lot of oil is in the sump... so if oil levels are checked then... they seem off the stick or very low. If you add oil at this point... you will surely overfill.
2. Cold (started-short idle): If you start a cold engine and idle for 30-60 secs... you put all that oil settled in the sump back in the oil tank. You can get a decent reading at this point. But you don't want it past the MIN mark (just on the stick... up to MIN)... because the oil is not up to temp and thinned out yet.
3. Fully Warmed-up: If the engine is up to temps... like checking the oil after you just ran the ski... now the oil is fully up to temp and thinned out and now an oil reading between MIN and MAX is acceptable. I prefer to keep it halfway... not all the way up to MAX.
Last edited by ripcuda; 06-17-2014 at 02:18 PM. Reason: to clarify terms
06-17-2014, 02:17 PM #9
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
bought the ski from an elderly 83 yr old man who only had him and his wife on it. 60 hrs when i got it. I have had it for two yrs and put 80 hrs myself with proper oil change and plugs. No one but myself have driven it since. I have had it out several times this season with no issues. Went to take it out last weekend and made it about 1/4 to 1/2 mile from ramp with it running great before it started doing this. Oil looks good with out any foam. There is a temp icon on the dsiplay that flash when over heats, but it hasn't came on this time. Did last yr but it was due to grass needing cleaned out. Was fine after that. Only roll over was the 1st year I got it, and I fliped it back in the right direction with no issue.
06-17-2014, 03:04 PM #10
Hmm... this is one of those time I wish we could read the codes... like with Digital Wrench (DW). If you were having ETB or PPU issues... those would throw some codes (I suspect) or at least be able to see their out-of-range values in DW.
At this point... not sure what to suggest other than checking some common items to ensure it's not one of those problems.
-Check compression... both cylinders... should be 140psi +/- 15psi... both plugs out, hold full throttle while cranking.
-Pull intercooler-to-intake hard pipe... confirm no oily gunk in the pipe/hoses
-Look down into the throttle body. Put in the lanyard, tap start button (but don't start), then slowly squeeze the throttle. Watch and see the butterfly in the throttle slowly open as you squeeze. Squeeze full... hold 2 seconds, slowly release fully... pause 2 secs... repeat x2... lastly pull lanyard out. This is the ETB relearn process... but will also allow you to see the throttle plate moving and see if it sweeps fully... when it's fully open, shine a flashlight into the intake manifold and see if there is any pooled oil in there.
-check turbo wastegate to ensure it's not seized. Grab rod coming out of wastegate actuator and push it downward... towards turbo. It should be heavily spring loaded but open an inch or so then snap back closed as you release.
-check to ensure you have a "little" slack in the throttle trigger cable where it goes under the hood to the PPU unit. If this cable got tight (no slack), it would affect proper PPU sweep readings and could cause issues.
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