09-09-2014, 05:37 PM #1
Which aftermarket engine management system would you chose for a weber msx150
So I have decided now that I have all the current issues delt with concerning the mechanical issues on the msx 150 I am feeling out the waters for a standalone ecu.
Vi-Pec: Cost about 4 grand and it's a locked system. Not sure if it can operate the fly by wire throttle system.
FAST: 2.0 Cost about 2grand not including any sensors or special setup or harness. It is a partially locked system. Not sure if it will control the fly by wire throttle system.
Motec: M400 Cost about 4 grand. It is a partially locked system so you can as a retail customer pay for the right to make your own adjustments. It claims to operate fly by wire systems.
AEM: EMS-4 through Weberpower.com It cost about 2600 with custom harness. It is an unlocked system. It does not control the fly by wire throttle. It comes pre loaded with a webber hydro slide base map.
-If the new unit can not operate the fly by wire throttle I will need to convert to the manual throttle cable and dual throttle bodies and intake manifold. This would add 1000 dollars
-A locked system means you have to pay for the ability to change your map and tune. Almost impossible if you are not registered with the company as a retailer or tech.
Let me start by saying my first two choices, the ViPec and FAST are out, as they are outrageously expensive and you have to go through a registered dealer and can't alter your program. So I am stuck with the two systems I would rather not use because HalTech does not have anything for this application. Motec and AEM The Motec system would cost a bit more and does not come pre loaded with a startup and go map programmed into it. It will however come with the ability to control the stock fly by wire throttle system. On the other side the AEM will only be slightly cheaper and will require a new intake manifold, twin throttle bodies and throttle cable. But it comes ready to hit the water and start tuning as it comes loaded with a map profile for the boosted weber engine.
Another option is a DIYAuto systems microsquirt. I have used there older megasquirt system and after a lot of tinkering they work as well as the expensive systems. The cost of a microsquirt system with universal harness is $379. But I would need the manual throttle components. Also the map would need to be built from scratch.
Has anyone here done new engine management on a webber msx?
Any suguestions would be great. On the street I would have plenty of choices but it seems I am limited on the water.
Last edited by hill160881; 09-09-2014 at 05:55 PM.
09-09-2014, 06:01 PM #2
do you know if going with aftermarket management will allow you to delete the PPU interface?
09-09-2014, 06:36 PM #3
Yes if I want to install the twin throttle bodies and intake manifold from a sled and go manual cable throttle. But if you wanted to keep the fly by wire system you would most likely need to keep it.
It is more than likely that I will go manual throttle if I switch to a different management system.
09-09-2014, 06:41 PM #4
Something else to consider is some systems allow for warning light programming but none allow for the use of the stock instrument cluster. So it would need to be replaced with some gauges. I think RPM, fuel level and oil pressure are the important ones.
There may be a way to get the original cluster to power up but I am unsure if it would read fuel level or speed. It won't show rpms for sure.
09-09-2014, 06:45 PM #5
Im pretty sure everything on the gauge would work minus the tach unless you had a tach signal output on the computer that you could hook to the gauges. Id look into trying to delete the PPU interface without deleting fly by wire
09-09-2014, 07:02 PM #6
What signal would the new ecu read without the ppu? I prefer mechanical throttle. It responds faster.
The wiring diagram is hard to get so I am unsure what on the cluster would read until I try.
Last edited by hill160881; 09-09-2014 at 10:55 PM.
09-09-2014, 11:14 PM #7
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
The speed signal is direct from the paddle wheel sensor to the NGI display or you can use the newly released CANDooPro GPS module which wires directly into the stock wiring to the display.
Fuel level wiring is direct from tank sender to display and uses marine standard ohm ranges for empty and full.
Tip: If you use the NGI display from the MSX 140 (slightly different display version) you can utilize the oil level input to monitor your methanol tank.
Other inputs on the display are warnings. There are separate input pins for HOT, Check Engine, and REVERSE indication (flashing red light). Ground the pin to activate the signal, if memory serves.
There is no input for Turbo, that display section is simulated from RPM
The NGI tachometer input can handle a wide range of voltages. It only needs a couple of volts signal level but I think it can tolerate around 100 volts. The displayed number is ten times the input frequency in Hertz. So 120Hz shows 1200RPM. Somewhere around here (ages ago) I did the math for how many pulses per engine revolution that is.
Update: Redid the math (hope I did it correctly) and it works out to six input pulses per engine revolution. There are historical reasons why Polaris does not use one or even three pulses per crank revolution for the tachometer signal to the display.
Last edited by K447; 09-10-2014 at 07:40 AM.
09-10-2014, 07:01 AM #8
Great info. I was unsure looking at the main engine wiring diagram weather the signals the NGI display receives came from the ecu or went directly to the display. This makes an aftermarket ecu much more desirable as it will look stock.
Thanks for for the info.
09-10-2014, 03:34 PM #9
As far as the fly by wire. You should be able to use the signal from the PPU itself and not need the signal from the PPU interface. Hopefully anyway. That would get rid of another problem.
Or possibly you can use a seadoo 4tec throttle body because it has built in IAC and TPS or look into universal aftermarket ones
09-10-2014, 04:09 PM #10
What about using a CMD? I know you won't have timing or RPM increase but its an option. That is if the model meant for the seadoo fly by wire will actually work. Both Bosch fly by wire.
Food for thought
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
By miamirider in forum Sea Doo ClassifiedsReplies: 0Last Post: 05-20-2009, 08:13 PM
By GPRXPJared in forum Open DiscussionReplies: 53Last Post: 05-16-2009, 04:13 PM
By BartenderSmalley in forum Sea Doo Open DiscussionReplies: 0Last Post: 07-20-2008, 07:57 AM
By BartenderSmalley in forum 4-Tec PerformanceReplies: 0Last Post: 07-20-2008, 07:57 AM
By eaparks in forum Sea Doo Open DiscussionReplies: 6Last Post: 07-15-2008, 09:49 PM