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  1. #1
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Trouble starting TXi :(

    02+ TXi Virage

    Last time the ski ran was June of this year. Determined a faulty injector, and sent out a spare EMM to get checked out. Left the ski sitting until a week ago, and the battery was dead. Drained the old gas and put in 5 gal of fresh gas, removed the battery and have been using an optima blue top from my boat to test with (fully charged on a battery tender). Swapped in the new EMM (its matching injectors were already installed from prior troubleshooting) and could not get it to start.

    Tried the old EMM. Same thing.
    Tried bypassing the LR503 AND the display. Same thing.
    Getting low voltage on the white/red wires at the injectors. If I kept cranking I could see the voltage rise slowly.
    Swapped out the capacitor with another I have. It's getting closer to firing more often now, but no go. Voltage rises quicker, and does get over 20v.
    Checked and cleaned all connections. All good.
    Poured a little gas into each throttle body and was able to get it to start and stay running, but after I stopped it, I could not get it started again.
    Checked the stator, and each pair of wires is reading .6 ohms. Slightly higher than spec, but consistent on all of them.
    Voltage is 2.5 and 4.5vac for the stator outputs. Lower than what the service manual calls for, but again each is consistent.
    CPS is clean. (Had some grease on it from assembly, but I cleaned that off)

    Entire ski has 3hrs on it since being 100% rebuilt. It started prior to it sitting for a few months back in June.

    I'm recharging my battery now, for fear that I have drained it during troubleshooting, but I'm reading 11.7vdc at the battery while cranking. DVM is a very nice Fluke unit.

    Any ideas here? I'm not really wanting to put more money into this. I've already dropped $6200 into it, and have only had 30 minutes of pleasure out of it since 2007. Hookers are much cheaper than that!


  2. #2
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    Sounds like a stator/flywheel issue to me. If your voltage readings are low off of the stator thats where i would look. Pull the flywheel cover and have a look.

  3. #3
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Easier said then done
    I think I'm either going to order a stator and msx flywheel and go from there, or just sell it as is. Part of me wants to sell this ski, my 05 Yamaha FX160 HO, and my 99 Exciter 270 and go buy a brand new boat with a damn warranty.

    Are there ANY other areas on this issue that I have overlooked and not troubleshot yet?

  4. #4
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    If you have swapped working parts in with no change i would look under the flywheel

  5. #5

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    Checked the stator, and each pair of wires is reading .6 ohms. Slightly higher than spec, but consistent on all of them.
    Voltage is 2.5 and 4.5vac for the stator outputs. Lower than what the service manual calls for, but again each is consistent.

    It seems like you've done your troubleshooting. It sounds like your stator is testing consistently out of spec. Not a lot of fun to replace but on that boat especially it will never run right with a bad stator.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnityRacing View Post
    ...
    Are there ANY other areas on this issue that I have overlooked and not troubleshot yet?
    Engine was just rebuilt, correct?

    Check that the flywheel index is correct. If the woodruff key has sheared (or flywheel was not properly installed) and TDC no longer corresponds with flywheel zero degree then the fuel injection and ignition timing will be wrong and the engine may not be able to actually start.

    How much actual voltage are you measuring on White/Red wires when the engine is cranking (with all fuel injectors plugged in)? You said over 20 volts, but how much over?

  7. #7
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    Probably not the flywheel key since it starts and runs fine when I pour in fuel.
    I was starting and running fine a few months back, and just sat draining the battery.

    It gets to around 21v and then catches like it wants to start but the bendix has already let go by then and no longer turning it over. (This is AFAIK normal, as once the engine starts the bendix disconnects the starter from the flywheel)


    I'm just finding it hard to believe the stator has gone bad just from sitting a few months with a draining/drained battery. Doesn't make sense.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnityRacing View Post
    Probably not the flywheel key since it starts and runs fine when I pour in fuel.
    I was starting and running fine a few months back, and just sat draining the battery.

    It gets to around 21v and then catches like it wants to start but the bendix has already let go by then and no longer turning it over. (This is AFAIK normal, as once the engine starts the bendix disconnects the starter from the flywheel)

    I'm just finding it hard to believe the stator has gone bad just from sitting a few months with a draining/drained battery. Doesn't make sense.
    Starter solenoid and starter motor are not controlled by the EMM. The starter is controlled by you pressing on the Start button. As long as you hold the button down the starter should remain engaged.

    Check that the starter motor itself is well grounded and it is actually cranking the engine at full RPM (before the ignition actually lights the engine up). If the starter motor is binding or has issues then the engine will crank slowly and the stator AC voltage outputs would be low.

    The engine can start and run with primed fuel even if the flywheel has twisted out of index. If it is only mildly wrong then it can run but perhaps not start. It would not be able to produce full power either, but on land it can be hard to tell as it will rev up even with not much power being made.

    If you are still using the original start solenoid (metal mounting plate with black body) then it should be replaced. The original solenoids are known to corrode internally and can fail easily. Failure can result in continuous engine cranking even after you release the Start button. Replacements are a newer design that is more reliable, available from BRP and others, not just Polaris. Same connectors, just a better part.

  9. #9
    Resident electronics hacker UnityRacing's Avatar
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    The starter spins fine when the button is pressed, and continues to do so until I let off it. The bendix disengages when the engine catches and sputters.

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnityRacing View Post
    The starter spins fine when the button is pressed, and continues to do so until I let off it. The bendix disengages when the engine catches and sputters.
    Perhaps the Bendix is binding internally?

    There is a spring and thrust washer at the forward end of the Bendix gear shaft, where it sits in the flywheel cover bushing. Sometimes those small parts get dropped or misplaced when the cover is pulled off. Just thinking about possible mechanical issues that could create slow cranking. Which may or may not even be happening...

    Last Ficht engine I had here that would sputter and run then stop then start again, holding the Start button down would force the engine to keep cranking even when the ignition ceased for a few seconds. Actual problem was inside the EMM but I remember watching the spark testers go dark and then light up again, every few seconds, as I leaned on the Start button. The Bendix would re-engage or stay engaged (dunno which was actually happening as the engine would only 'run' for maybe two seconds at a time).

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