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  1. #1
    jbryzek's Avatar
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    Spark Steering Feedback

    Guys,

    I have been working on a project using some spark components and now that it is done and in the water I have a few questions for spark owners. Having not ever ridden a spark are you guys getting much steering feedback? With the ace engine in another hull and the pump/steering adapted to our application is seems as though we are getting a bit of feeback in the wheel. Do you guys feel that in the handle bars as well or is the steering pretty loose? We seem to need a heavy and steady hand on the wheel to make a turn with it. Trying to pin point if its a steering/pump thing or if its in our hull design. Thanks..

    I will answer the question now rather than have you all ask..this is what we built..

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  2. #2
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    That's really neat

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  4. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryzek View Post
    ... Having not ever ridden a spark ...
    Why would you not have ridden a Spark before deciding to use the same steering system on your boat?

    A jet pump steering nozzle has a fairly strong return to center force since the handlebar steering effort directly applies a side force to the powerful water jet at the steering nozzle. Deflecting the water jet creates a push back on the steering nozzle that then comes back through the steering cable.

    Without measuring the required steering forces in the steering cable how did you choose the gearing of the steering wheel?

    ...

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    http://www.boats4sale.pro/detail/ca/...PLORER-JET-BOA
    Last edited by K447; 04-04-2015 at 05:17 PM. Reason: gearing

  5. #4
    jbryzek's Avatar
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    I appreciate your feedback however your tone was not exactly what I was looking for. Considering you have 28k plus posts I will assume you live on this forum and assume you know what you are talking about.

    This is is a new model for us. Not our first jet yacht tender we have built from scratch. Never had to ride one in the past to prove it worked before we put it in a tender. Dozens of Yamaha vx110 engines and pumps and no feedback so why would we assume otherwise. Also when a customer asks for a custom tender. We don't put handle bars on it. Nor will the diameter of the wheel help with the feedback by adding an inch or two. The ratio of the steering system itself determines that. We almost always use the same 120 degree system without any trouble. Never had feedback problems with other rotax set ups we have used nor any yamahas. Hence my easy to answer question by someone with time on a spark. Was looking for insight not ridicule but thanks anyway.



    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jbryzek View Post
    ... Having not ever ridden a spark ...
    Why would you not have ridden a Spark before deciding to use the same steering system on your boat?

    A jet pump steering nozzle has a fairly strong return to center force since the handlebar steering effort directly applies a side force to the powerful water jet at the steering nozzle. Deflecting the water jet creates a push back on the steering nozzle that then comes back through the steering cable.

    Without measuring the required steering forces in the steering cable how did you choose the diameter of the steering wheel?

    Curious how boat guys think boats should always have a round steering wheel, even when the boat does not have a rudder ...

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    http://www.boats4sale.pro/detail/ca/...PLORER-JET-BOA

  6. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    I did forget about the gearing within the boat wheel steering gear.

    Is the mechanical leverage from Spark handlebar grips to steering nozzle actuator arm different from the Yamaha jet pump you have used previously?

  7. #6
    GasResearch-VT.SE's Avatar
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    This is why you worm drive the cable, so force input is only applyable through one direction of the steering cables.

  8. #7
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    Congrats on your project.

    I own a challenger boat, RXT and Spark. Of the three crafts, I get the least feed back from the spark and the most from the challenger. At WOT I have to use the most force compared to mid-throttle and then back to idle which is nothing. The force is not substantial to me at WOT on the spark, but feels about right.

    When I do move at mid to WOT the rear end on the spark skips and slides reducing that feedback.

    I hope that answer your question as I gave a rather subjective answer.

  9. #8
    Use a non feedback steering helm if possible.

  10. #9
    jbryzek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasResearch-VT.SE View Post
    This is why you worm drive the cable, so force input is only applyable through one direction of the steering cables.

    so in your experience how do you compensate for a steering throw of say 4 or 5 inches on a conventional say 135 degree helm in relation to a rotary non feedback helm with worm drive cable that in my experience is usually more like a 9 inch throw in the cable from lock to lock. And then the wheel is usually 3 turns or more from lock to lock?

    Do you know of a specific unit that would be compatible with this spark application or are you just talking in terms should be done. We are working to try and keep as many stock spark parts as possible. We currently are using the stock steering cable with a Sea star 135 degree jet boat helm. This is the helm we have used on tons of other projects without a problem. Looking for any ideas you might have.
    Last edited by jbryzek; 04-09-2015 at 03:00 PM.

  11. #10
    jbryzek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xintersecty View Post
    Congrats on your project.

    I own a challenger boat, RXT and Spark. Of the three crafts, I get the least feed back from the spark and the most from the challenger. At WOT I have to use the most force compared to mid-throttle and then back to idle which is nothing. The force is not substantial to me at WOT on the spark, but feels about right.



    When I do move at mid to WOT the rear end on the spark skips and slides reducing that feedback.

    I hope that answer your question as I gave a rather subjective answer.
    thanks for the input. I think we are getting a bit more than that in our helm as at times its a bit hard to keep control at higher speeds.

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