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  1. #1

    2001 Virage CDI power, LR module, Orange and red/purple wire mod

    I owned three 2001 Virages over the years and on all three I bought cheap due to the no spark issue. On all three I would disconnect the mod from the CDI red/purple to the orange and reconnect to the original Red/purple configuration and they would start. My question is why is this, my present ski is now running in the original config (red/purple to red/purple) but the rpm gauge didn't work. After disconnecting the gray wire it works, not sccurate but itworks. I forgot to mention the previous owner replaced the CDI and I changed out the LR module. The bilge pumps works while the ski runs and not running. So, if anyone knows why the mod of the orange wire to red/purple doesn't work I sure would like to know. No breaks in the orange wire mod, so it is good.
    Thanks


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow What the LR-505 Start/Stop module actually does

    Quote Originally Posted by polaris 700cc View Post
    I owned three 2001 Virages over the years and on all three I bought cheap due to the no spark issue. On all three I would disconnect the mod from the CDI red/purple to the orange and reconnect to the original Red/purple configuration and they would start.

    My question is why is this?

    My present ski is now running in the original config (red/purple to red/purple) but the rpm gauge didn't work. After disconnecting the gray wire it works, not accurate but itworks.

    I forgot to mention the previous owner replaced the CDI and I changed out the LR module. The bilge pumps works while the ski runs and not running.

    So, if anyone knows why the mod of the orange wire to red/purple doesn't work I sure would like to know. No breaks in the orange wire mod, so it is good...
    The original LR-505 Start/Stop modules in the early generation Virage and Genesis are known to be failure prone.

    The charging system in all Polaris carburetor engines connects the stator charging coil (Yellow wire) to the LR module to provide rectification and voltage regulation. If the LR module cannot properly control the Yellow wire then the battery will not charge. Proper charging voltage is defined (by me) as delivering over 13.5 volts (but less than 15.5 volts) to a non-discharged battery.

    The LR module also uses presence of AC voltage (from the magneto stator charging coils) on the Yellow wire to activate the Orange wire output on the LR module. The Orange wire output is a switched connection to battery voltage. As soon as the engine begins cranking the LR module is supposed to activate the Orange wire with full battery voltage.

    If the LR-505 Orange output is weak or does not turn on at all, then everything connected to Orange will also not be powered up.

    On the Virage and all Polaris carburetor engines after 2001 (2000?) the factory configuration is to have the CDI ignition module powered via the Orange wire output from the LR module. This is not a modification, it is the stock configuration.

    Machines made prior to 2000 had the factory wiring with CDI directly connected to Red/Purple. In 2000 Polaris issued a Service Bulletin PWC-00-05 which outlined several no-restart problems which could be corrected by changing the CDI Red/Purple wiring to the Orange terminal, the same as the post-2000 factory configuration.

    The reason Polaris made the change was to work around a flaw in some red engine CDI whereby the CDI would become confused as to whether the engine was currently running. If the CDI was confused it would not provide spark until several minutes of just sitting had elapsed. If you waited long enough, the engine would then start normally. On the water, this could be frustrating, or even dangerous.

    As best I can tell only some CDI have this problem. The CDI that do not will start and restart reliably, and the Orange wire connection is not needed.

    For the red engine CDI that do exhibit the restart issues, the Orange wire connection forces the CDI to fully shut down when the engine stops. When the engine is next cranked, the Orange wire powers up the CDI, the CDI wakes up properly, and the engine then has spark and actually starts.

    The very same Yellow wire that feeds into the LR module for voltage regulation and for Orange wire activation, is also the Yellow wire that feeds the tachometer signal to the MFI display. If the charging system is not working properly then the tachometer can also be affected. It may not show any RPM at all, or the RPM could be wildy incorrect.
    Last edited by K447; 04-15-2015 at 03:46 PM.

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  4. #3
    Thanks K447, I read a handful of threads but you just put it so I finally get it. I appreciate your time and energy. I have a new LR 505 on order.
    thanks again

  5. #4
    Bing-A-Ding-Ding-Ding, Brrrrrap! Brrrrrrrrrap!!! Polaris_Nut#1's Avatar
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    Great explanation K but I fail to see how this is a project.

  6. #5
    So I thought I had it figured out, got the new LR 505 (China) still the same condition I went ahead and tried multiple 505s still conditions were the same. It will not start when the Red/purple is connected to the orange post. Also I found that the bilge pump does not run when the engine is started. Now the ski will run with the red/purple connect to red/purple and the bilge runs when you fit the button. I have power on the yellow but the tach still doesn't work. Any suggestions on the next step. I take it that the orange lead coming out of the LR 505 is not supplying power when the engine turns over just not sure why.

  7. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polaris 700cc View Post
    So I thought I had it figured out, got the new LR 505 (China) still the same condition I went ahead and tried multiple 505s still conditions were the same. It will not start when the Red/purple is connected to the orange post. Also I found that the bilge pump does not run when the engine is started. Now the ski will run with the red/purple connect to red/purple and the bilge runs when you fit the button.

    I have power on the yellow but the tach still doesn't work.

    Any suggestions on the next step. I take it that the orange lead coming out of the LR 505 is not supplying power when the engine turns over just not sure why.
    The LR module looks for an AC signal on the Yellow wire. That AC signal comes from the rotating flywheel magnets and the stator charging coils.

    The tachometer also uses that same AC signal from the Yellow wire to show the engine RPM.

    Since you have no tachometer and no bilge pump, that tells me that the Yellow wire does not have the correct voltages.

    The stator charging coil is very simple. One end of the coil is Yellow wire and connects to MFI (tachometer) and the LR module.

    The other end of the stator charging coil is a Red/Purple wire. This is supposed to be connected with the other Red/Purple wires and have full battery power at all times.

    My guess is that the stator charging coil is open circuit or the Red/Purple end of the coil is not actually connected to battery power.

    Disconnect both stator charging coil wires and then measure the ohms between the two coil ends. Make sure you are measuring the correct wires. Should be very low ohms, just a little above zero ohms.

    If that measures good, then move one meter probe to engine ground. Between either stator charging coil wire and engine ground should be open circuit, infinite ohms.

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    Rasta Mon Condoms We Be Jammin!!!!! TxVirageTx's Avatar
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    on the original cdi's the mod would allow the cdi to see a power off condition,the replacement cdi's you have to go back to the stock wiring setup,ran into this exact issue with my tx,replacement cdi wouldn't spark,rewired back to original setup been working ever since

  10. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxPro1200 View Post
    on the original cdi's the mod would allow the cdi to see a power off condition,the replacement cdi's you have to go back to the stock wiring setup,ran into this exact issue with my tx,replacement cdi wouldn't spark,rewired back to original setup been working ever since
    This is required?

    I have not encountered this, other than when the LR module is not good for Orange output is there a problem.

    The original LR-505 are known to be weak. The LR-505-4 updated version seems to work properly.

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    The only issue with wiring the cdi power feed to tje orange terminal is if you have a bad LR then you have no spark.

  12. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Matrix View Post
    The only issue with wiring the cdi power feed to the orange terminal is if you have a bad LR then you have no spark.
    This is why the modified wiring change is only recommended for CDI which actually exhibit the no-warm-restart problem.

    If the CDI is working just fine with the Red/Purple connected to all the other Red/Purple, then leave it that way.

    Service Bulletin PWC-00-05 is not an upgrade, it is a work around for slightly faulty CDI units. Not all red engine CDI have this issue.

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