Thread: MSX 140 project begins
05-11-2015, 07:36 AM #1
MSX 140 project begins
Now that the pair of Virages are sold and out of the garage, I can start on the MSX.
It's an 04 140 hull. Bought in a non running state - PO stated the engine locked up while idling through a no wake zone.
Finally had a chance to tear into it yesterday. Found the PTO piston serverly dinged up from detonation. The cylinder wall is deeply scored also. Found the PTO rod doesn't move on the crank either, and the PTO head is beat up also.
The MAG and CEN cylinders appear in great shape, I'll clean them up and make sure.
I stopped here and have not taken it down any further. Oh, exhaust manifold had the rear most mounting ear broken off where the expansion pipe mounts to it. I have another manifold already.
Also had a chance to tear down the other motor (2003) and inspect the crank. It's an SBT crank appears to be fairly new, and all bearings spin nice and smooth. It's welded. It does not have the provisions for the forward bearing keeper circlip though. (I think this is common for 140 crank rebuilds)
I did notice there seems to be a difference between the 2003 and 2004 cases where the oiling hole is on the top of the case. The 2004 case is machined down where the oil holes are. I will try and remember to snap a pic when I get a chance. Anyone else notice this?
Now I need to focus on getting my cylinders cleaned up. They will need to be honed, and cleaned up to remove the paint and corrosion on the outside. Should I ship these off to Watcon or just buy a hone and put it in the drill press? What about cleaning up the outside? Open to any suggestions here. I want to do it right once, and not have to do a tear down again.
05-11-2015, 07:39 AM #2
I think I'm leaning toward a satin black upper and lower hull, with the front plastics and rear grab handle done in a burnt orange. I will get a jet trim seat to match, and some black/orange Hydroturf also.
Hull will be professionally done, not a DIY job. I need to do some research and find out if automotive paint will hold up in a marine environment.
05-11-2015, 09:17 AM #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
There's a guy off Rosemont- Jim Bower of Werks Engineering. He can hone. Does a lot of 2-stroke jet ski and dirt bike stuff...
05-11-2015, 11:24 AM #4
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Milwaukee WI
Automotive paint will hold up just fine on the top half of the ski. I wouldn't do it on the bottom. Gel coat on the bottom would be ideal.
05-11-2015, 12:16 PM #5
Yeah I've used Werks in the past. I need the outer cylinders cleaned up also. I was considering Abacus Racing but not sure if they can handle Nik'd cylinders.
Do they make a satin black gelcoat? I'd prefer to have the entire hull done in gelcoat, but not sure about my available color or finish choices.
05-11-2015, 01:15 PM #6
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
Oh, they're nikasil? Abacus honed my Porsche block, which is alusil- very similar... If you've got gouges in the bore, though, might need to send it to these guys... http://www.mt-llc.com/cylservice.php
05-11-2015, 01:35 PM #7
I called Millennium Technologies a few months ago when rebuilding my 140. They quoted me $263 to replate a single 85mm MSX 140 cylinder.
Consider how much wear (hours?) you have on the 2 good cylinders. If high-hours... even with new rings your compression won't be top-of-the-spec. Something to consider.
05-11-2015, 02:52 PM #8
I'm not going to bother with the bad cylinder. I have one good one from the 2003 MSX that I will use. All the plating looks real good, I just want them cleaned up prior to building it.
If I have to replate cylinders, I'll just run the sleeved cylinders I have. Should be fine with the proper rings. From what I gather the Nik cylinders only real benefit is longevity and heat dissipation. I can always remove the thermostat and take care of the heat, and I could refresh the top end a few times before I would equal the cost of replating.
The engine will be built outside the ski so I can do a pressure test and compression test and see where I am prior to installing in the hull.
Abacus is very knowledgeable, they got my GTO to 402whp NA with a baby cam and head work. They are more known for the EU cars than anything else, so I'm not sure how they would feel about some PWC cylinders.
05-11-2015, 06:09 PM #9
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- near Toronto, Canada
I believe the EMM requires the engine operating temperature to stay within certain boundaries in order for the EMM to optimally manage the engine. Unlike the carburetor engines on the Ficht engines the exhaust water jacket temp sensor provides actual temp data to the EMM. So the EMM will know when the engine temp is too cool.
05-11-2015, 07:04 PM #10
I still fail to see the advantage of the coated cylinders for the price they present.
If mine check out ok i'll run them since I have them, but for the price I don't see why the iron sleeved cylinders wouldn't work well. Certainly there cannot be that much more heat generated or there would have been complaints from everyone who has run an SBT motor that they get overtemp warnings.
I plan to run the SPI pistons with (from what I gather) is the proper dome for the 140 heads, and thusly the EMM fuel mapping.
I'm pretty sure the only difference as far as the pistons are concerned between iron and nikasil coated are with the rings and how they seat. Seems simple enough to swap to the correct ones.
I'm just second guessing myself, or overlooking something. Certainly I want to build this engine to last, but at some point I have to say "the money spent on X just isn't worth the result".
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