01-09-2017, 10:03 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
2-Stroke (Projects/Budget- Build Ideas/Inquiries) ***2017 Updates/Consensus***
It's 2017 or later, your looking for a new project to work on, let me tell you this a 2-stroke jet ski is not the answer to your problems.... if your new to projects and builds keep it simple and stick to 4-stroke engines, there is a reason the industry(ies) have gone this route. Mainly due to reliability and engine lifespan/longevity.
Don't bite the 2-stroke GP1200/1300R "Cheap Build Idea" bullet ........... when the modern 4-Stroke 2017+ GP revolution is among us.
It will take you more time and money and sacrificing engine lifespan and reliability to build an older 2-stroke jet ski just to barely keep up with newer 4-stroke forced induction jet skies in straight line speed and acceleration..... recommendation is to put a down payment and to buy a brand new GP1800R leave it stock or map tuner x (upgrade ECU) and impeller pitch/boltons and call it a day.
Stock supercharged Yamaha jet skis with Tunes go 76+mph. The tuning softwares out there like "map tuner X" are a great bargain for the price($965 current retail). It would take someone a fully built GP1300R 2-stroke with about ~$5,000 in parts or more to get to that Stock Supercharged 4-stroke speed.
Hardships/Roadblocks/10 months of reading-note taking/experience in my own 2-stroke Jet ski build:
D.I.Y. (Do it yourself) Building a Project jet ski costs a lot of time/ money / reading. I made that mistake a year ago (Feb.2016 & project still in pieces Jan. 2017), I thought it would be quick and easy and it's not life gets in the way and there just isn't that much free time in the day to get to it on your own, I said it would take me "3 months tops" by myself..... thats the slippery slope I fell into. If you decide your hell bent and a slight masochist and set on purchasing one make sure it's 2005 and Newer to avoid recalls or buy one of someone who has done all the work preferably a member on here GH Classifieds and has pictures and leave it COMPLETELY stock or do oil block off and plan to sell it sooner than later.
The slippery slope:
Adding parts and upgrading stuff is a complete MIND F**K, cause you buy parts you think will make you faster and then when they don't (in the case of the 2-stroke) you end up having to buy every hull part, list part to avoid recall, so that all the parts work together in unison and these 2- strokes jet skies have to be very well built/engine/impeller pitch/all sorts of knit- picky- tuning/maintenance and then hull truing/tuning, the 2-stroke engines consume more fuel and oil and wear down faster the more power you throw at them..... It's a nightmare.....
Carb'd 2-Stroke anything can be a nightmare even worse when it's a watercraft or sees the sea/saltwater cause they get dirty/rust or the fuel gets dirty or has poor fuel quality performance issues and then it runs like sh!T, they need to be saltwater flushed always, STOCK and brand new and 4- stroke and being a little newb-ish to jet ski scene is just an easier and a safer bet.
You WILL SAVE A Lot of time money and save a lot of 2- stroke headaches/problems/nightmares, 9 times out of 10 these older Skies have bad resale value and are a bad investment in comparison to the 4-stroke counterparts (although there are always those rare exceptions).
Hindsight is 20/20:
I wish someone with a conscious or me from the future would have came in an explained and said to me save your time and effort and go the Forced Induction 4- stroke route. It's sad that you only learn through experience and this is an experience you don't want to go through. (Wasted time an money, when I could have applied for a loan and been riding all this time.)
Take it from me it's a bad investment and a waste of your time/effort to learn and reapply all these outdated principles/upgrades/preventative measures. You can double or triple your speed gains with a Forced Induction 4- stroke with way less effort, even a stock one will destroy an old school 2- stroke jet ski in delivery of power and efficiency.
Even think about a non turbo/supercharged 4-stroke on Nitrous before taking on a 2-stroke endeavor.
Prices can be deceiving:
Getting a cheap 2-stroke jet ski project build in 2017 sounds like a good idea and investment at first cause of the initial cost and how attractive the prices sound but in the long run your basically shooting yourself in the foot so-to-speak and just pedaling backwards. I'd say 100% of 2-stroke jet ski owners face some sort of break down or the like and end up losing interest at some point and being aware of that and paying attention to the cost of riding and maintaining one of these and paying attention your your own level of interest and involvement are key factors in your longevity in the 2-stroke build. The more these things sit the more problems will arise down the road maintenance and exercise are vital to the 2-strokes life.
Time consuming and extensive hobby/craft:
Takes many hours of goal formulating, reading, note taking, manual labor or funds to complete 2-stroke and mostly any jet ski or project build... it's crazy how just adding an exhaust won't simply make you go faster and how so much more tuning, knowledge, and skill is needed to optimize the full potential of all the modifications you put into a 2-stroke jet ski project.
****Unless you plan on building a little old school stand up trick ski that you can lay on a small bench workshop table and are essentially retired and a jet ski connoisseur with a lot of free time and money on your hands, I would run far away from any standup/sit down 2- stroke jet ski get that same money/credit card and put it as a down payment on a brand new 4- stroke supercharged Yamaha FZR or GP1800.****
PARTs availability *OUTdated:
Most and if not all jet ski 2-stroke parts from manufactures like Riva and R&D are discontinued, example of this is: I've called RIVA about one of their parts the 2 stroke "Dominator Manifold" to learn more details about if it would work with my EFI 2-stroke build and the guy didn't know what I was talking about, he didn't even know they had ever made that part , they later contacted one of the "older mechanics" and they said they are sold out and discontinued. Most parts you find online are left over new-old stock.
Buyer-Seller-Performance Parts Market /Unicorn Builders:
Eventually, it will come to a point where you have to either buy a fully built 2-stroke Jet ski from someone reputable on this site if you want something faster than stock, or if you need a parts jet ski to take off parts for your 2-stroke build, (I think it's better this way) and it would be more cost effective to the buyer and seller (and 2-stroke jet ski builders) that use these products. There are only a handful of elite 2-stroke builders on this planet your are lucky and blessed to have contact with a few on this GH website.
Anecdotal Information on 2-Stroke speed and performance gains:
Sure, you can try to copy other peoples mods and still MIGHT not get the same results in speed and acceleration they did, because there are many other variables in temperature, water conditions, elevation, rider weight, etc. that they may have had that YOU will most probably have differently.
2-Strokes are older technology and don't last as long as 4-strokes....... Many 2-stroke purists may argue that notion but check out this article and google yourself others if necessary http://www.deepscience.com/articles/engines.html
What about the 2- Stroke Speed Database?
Sure people claim to have made 89+mph for someone's personal best record.... but how long will that 2-stroke engine really last how much fuel is it wasting, and how efficient, and practical is the jet ski in overall use, can you jump waves in it, how does it accelerate to such speed?
Upgrades to Gains ratio is low:
2- stroke tuning can be cumbersome and you need expensive upgraded rare carbs (Used +$300 Makuni) to run Triples Pipes (Used +$500) and need to be in the high +7500 rpm range for them to work correctly along with a huge list including engine and hull modifications to be past the 75mph range and with just those two major modifications its already more then what the jet ski shell hull is worth in the resale market now in 2017. With just $965 Map Tuner X, which you could easily spend on a set of Triple Pipes or Upgraded Carbs alone you can buy a Tuner for a supercharged 4-stroke.
Not for everyone:
Even renting a supercharged jet ski would be more cost effective in time and money for most people. Some people buy jet skies and leave them sitting cause they get bored or have no one to ride with, but in the 2- stroke case they are worse because of break downs or failures or poor maintenance/maintenance habits-requirements and finicky to bad fluid quality.
It's crazy how an open ended question about how to find and add an exhaust and adding more whole shot performance from being interested in buying a GP1200/1300R in 2016-2017 can turn into a full blown article/sticky/writeup.
The best thing about this type of build or any build for that matter, is that you learn the ski inside and out and know every and all bolts and how to diagnose problems that may or not be reoccurring.
Good luck, I hope this helped, I hope you make the right decision, and I am here if you have any questions. Best bet is to save $4,000 or credit card, put 3,000 down for loan on Yamaha GP1800 or other supercharged/turbo 4-stroke jet ski and get a tuner and impeller/boltons and you can be in the +75's stock with tune to mid 80's MPH+ with more boltons which is more than enough for any beginner (you can fall off and die type of speeds).... they have crazy acceleration that I urge you to try even by local dealer test rides.
01-10-2017, 06:57 AM #2
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Cape Town, South Africa
GP123, you need to remember you purchased a seized/non running ski with about everything broken. You hemorrhaged money by needing to replacing things like the entire jetpump, engine, rideplate and pump brackets, etc.
If you had spent an extra us$500-1000 on a working 05+ in good condition, you would only require an impeller, 4deg timing key, efi, modded rideplate, air filter/arrester, jetworks kit, d-plate, reeds (stuffer + pettals or vf3) and a raised compression head.
Again what and if you mod is up to you. Unfortunately you are forced to either mod/repair or replace to get it working.
If you had purchased a non running FZR/RXPX you would still be in the same situation.
Rather concentrate on getting your ski working and ride it, then mod it or trade it in on another ski. One could keep it as a beater for your friends/family to use.
01-10-2017, 03:12 PM #3
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Cape Town, South Africa
01-12-2017, 03:32 AM #4
I understand where you are coming from but , there are many GPR1200/1300 out there that run 70 plus mph and are reliable at far less cost ( purchase wise ) .
Some like the challenge of getting the most out of the least amount of money, so there will be those who enjoy the two strokes. Eventually I will go Supercharged Yamaha but in the mean time my GPR gives fits to guys who thought they have the fastest ski on the water .
01-12-2017, 06:37 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Lake Norman, NC
Well all those points seem valid, but I have restored 3 of these 2 strokes, well 2 1/2. not quite finished with my xlt1200. I have had more fun with my 14 year old son fixing up his birthday present. a 2003 GP1300r. Was it cost effective? Probably not. but the time spent and his excitement is priceless. I am not a mechanic just a weekend warrior that has Greenhulk as my reference, guide, and so much more. I don't believe I could have done this on a 4 stroke. I also don't think we would have the pride in our machines if we didn't make them from the ground up. I'll have to post a picture of him buffing and waxing it. He wants to wash it after every ride. I know if I just got him a 4 stroke it would be abused. not sure what this is worth but thanks to everyone for all the help.
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