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  1. #1

    Will we have some stiff competition with a 2 seater SC Kawi?

    Just speaking from observation and maybe ignorance it seems superchargers are a relatively new thing just less than five years old? And even before that the innovation of fuel injection on the 2001 models that really helped to revolutionize the watercraft industry.

    I think that when seadoo released the SC 2 seaters they really had something going.

    Now with the release of the ultra 250, i think it is really going to be interesting in the years to follow.

    Will the watercraft world see the release of a 2 seater SC Kawi? It would only seem the way to go to compete with the rxps and to follow that evolution in musclecraft...

    I like the looks of the kawis, to me they are very sleek and aerodynamic and i think their design is great.

    Don't get me wrong though, I am a dooer all the way. I own a 2001 RXDI and also an RXP 2004 and I love both skis. I and my friends have enjoyed these with no issues other than the occasion prop repair, and wear ring. I think they are great skis and would more than likely buy from sea - doo again. With the amount of support that we get from sites like these, there really is hardly any reason to go to the dealer unless it is really bad.

    But I think think that in the years to come with kawi and with maybe some tweaking on the honda end with their turbos, we may be in for some stiff competition.

    Honest thoughts, please no tar and feathering, yellow


  2. #2
    Fat Man, Little Boat Region8Ultra250X's Avatar
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    i heard through the grapevine kawi is working on something that is about 1.5ft. shorter than the 250x with the same powerplant

  3. #3
    HORSEPOWER JUNKIE 9secZO6's Avatar
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    kawi is on to somthing w/ the roots style charger, centrifugals (rxp) may give you 10 psi at 8000 rpm, but the roots will give it to ya at 3000 if ya want it.....I need to see how kawi drives the super, changing pulley or gearing would make a diff....assuming they are not overdriving the chit out of it now

  4. #4
    Vern's Avatar
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    Z06, on the street, with very good traction, a roots style would have an advantage up to 5000 rpm roughly, but even that can be negated by the right torque converter or higher rpm clutch launch. But on a ski there is very little difference ... the pump on the ski slips a little initially and the rpms almost instantly go to 8000 rpm on most RXP/Ts, negating any 2000 - 5000 rpm boost difference. Pull WOT on a RXP/T and watch the tach, it immediately goes 7500+rpm and goes 8000+ rpm in a second more. Plus centrifugals heat the air much less, draw less parasitic horsepower and make more hp and torque at the same boost levels due to the above.

    I like roots blowers too, I have one on my 2004 GTP and it is fun and practical on the street. I think the Kawi motor is a good setup, but they are getting 11 psi out of it now, and that is close to a real world limit on pump gas with a roots style blower. Overdriving the stock SC on the 250X will definitely require more fuel, higher octane, even better intercooling or some combination of those 3. One of the reasons the 250X seems to suck more gas is also related to the roots blower at 11 psi - in order to keep air temps down, they will need to dump more fuel in than a centrifugal/turbo setup at the same boost due to the higher heat generated by the roots. The difference with the Kawi setup vs RXP/T setup is that the basic Kawi setup is much closer to maxed out already on pump gas, while we have to add a better intercooler and SC impeller to get to the same 250 hp.

    IMO, in order to get significantly more hp out of the 250 (adding 40+ hp) will require a good chunk of money rather than minor tweaks like pulley swaps and ram air. Kawi actually did a very good job with the motor ... they just did not leave much 'on the table' for the average hot rodder to easily boost the hp more.

  5. #5
    Moderator The Bandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Z06, on the street, with very good traction, a roots style would have an advantage up to 5000 rpm roughly, but even that can be negated by the right torque converter or higher rpm clutch launch. But on a ski there is very little difference ... the pump on the ski slips a little initially and the rpms almost instantly go to 8000 rpm on most RXP/Ts, negating any 2000 - 5000 rpm boost difference. Pull WOT on a RXP/T and watch the tach, it immediately goes 7500+rpm and goes 8000+ rpm in a second more. Plus centrifugals heat the air much less, draw less parasitic horsepower and make more hp and torque at the same boost levels due to the above.

    I like roots blowers too, I have one on my 2004 GTP and it is fun and practical on the street. I think the Kawi motor is a good setup, but they are getting 11 psi out of it now, and that is close to a real world limit on pump gas with a roots style blower. Overdriving the stock SC on the 250X will definitely require more fuel, higher octane, even better intercooling or some combination of those 3. One of the reasons the 250X seems to suck more gas is also related to the roots blower at 11 psi - in order to keep air temps down, they will need to dump more fuel in than a centrifugal/turbo setup at the same boost due to the higher heat generated by the roots. The difference with the Kawi setup vs RXP/T setup is that the basic Kawi setup is much closer to maxed out already on pump gas, while we have to add a better intercooler and SC impeller to get to the same 250 hp.

    IMO, in order to get significantly more hp out of the 250 (adding 40+ hp) will require a good chunk of money rather than minor tweaks like pulley swaps and ram air. Kawi actually did a very good job with the motor ... they just did not leave much 'on the table' for the average hot rodder to easily boost the hp more.
    Well said Vern I think you are 100% correct. 08 should be interesting

  6. #6
    competition brings out the best in everyone. 08 is going to be good 09 even better. by raising the bar everyone will do a little better wich means the consumer (us) wins. yami is threatening to step up already. SD is coming up. it is a win win

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