Thread: Plate recomendations
07-07-2007, 11:17 PM #1
I'm interested in the groups opinion and experience with 3 different ride plate configurations. Current I/R Mod 4 plate, Jims FF plate, and the earlier I/R skegless angle plate. The plate I am now using is the early I/R skegless angle plate. Today I tested the latest version of this plate (Mod 4) back to back with the early version and obtained some interesting results. I don't want to prejudice this tread with my findings at this time, but am interested in what others have found. Also, I have no experience with a Jims FF plate and would like to hear what others have found in comparison to the I/R plates. The lake I run on is a small lake with smaller boats. Conditions range from flat to 18" max of small chop with an average of about 10". Speed runs are made in a cove behind an island with the ripples being less than 3". I'll post my findings shortly. Alan
07-08-2007, 10:15 AM #2
I also have an early IR skegless plate. It's .5 MPH slower that my new FF plate. I'd be very interested in hearing your early vs. MOD4 plate results.
07-08-2007, 08:30 PM #3
The skegged plates handle much better but I beleive the speed differences (skegged vs unskegged) to be minimal if the plates are machined the same and are set at the same angle.
07-08-2007, 10:20 PM #4
All are fast!
After trying Jim's FF plate the IR was on the F/S block. The skegged plate was just as fast if not faster and handled great. Now I have one for the daughters boat set at .850 for the bouy course and she is unpassable!!!
07-08-2007, 10:52 PM #5
- Join Date
- May 2005
For many years the flat plate was consider the fastest and even some respecfull people like Tommy Jordan still belive that, probably because they have mastered the art of hull speed . Thru the years the modification of plates have evolved and now they are fater than ever thanks to the blue printing/machine work and innovation from those who have taken their time and money to search for the perfect plate. I can only tell you that you may find to similar plate cut by different people giving you different speeds, but you need to fine tune the plate for your body weight and riding conditions to get the best out of them.
IMO there is no substitute for a skeeged plate for handling and overall performance, specially with the speed numbers that we are reaching these days. I had great luck with Jims Plate.
I flew from Houston to Miami and drove to Tampa to meet Jim and Leo. I had Jim cut my first package plate for me with my specs, machining the area in between the skegs and stepping the plate accordingly. His crafsmanship surpassed my expectations and he himself hanged his skegless plate in exchange for one of the new ones, He continued machining the plate in different locations and eventually it evolved into what he has available today. The trip was well worth it.!!
People seem happy also with Carls plates as far as I know.
Remember you can not just get a plate done and expect the best out of it, by just bolting it on, If you ski is handling setup perfect for your weight of 175 pounds and you let your 250 pound mother in law ride it, she is going to be out of control (like she is not already) . Fine tune your plate angle on low fuel before you judge it.
Lets hear your results
07-08-2007, 11:46 PM #6
I know Jim is a standup guy and his plates are very high quality. I have never had any Island plates so I cannot comment on them. I'm not sure whos is faster. Like Fercho said the plate does need to be tuned to you and the ski. A bag full of .010" shims is a must. Jim gives good instructions for a starting point with the plate.
I personally tune my plates for low fuel on glass in the superman position. If it handles that good then it will be good for the other riding conditions since the front of the hull is at its lightest in those conditions. Be damn careful in the superman position though. It is not for everybody.
07-08-2007, 11:52 PM #7
- Join Date
- May 2005
The Fountain boys pulled a SpiderMan at MB I..
07-13-2007, 03:36 PM #8Sorry for the delay but these results were over two days of testing and I didn't want to prejudice the thread with incomplete preliminary findings. It took some time but here is what I found with the testing we performed. Two machines were used, one nearly stock machine and my machine. The only mods on the nearly stock boat are an 800 grate that was sharpened with the wings clipped slightly, this was fitted to the shoe for proper alignment and shaved flat on the bottom so as to not stick down beyond the shoe. A PPK was installed with the pieces modified to make sure the shoe did not protrude lower than the hull. This was all sealed with 4200FC. My machine already has the early skegless plate that was shimmed to find its sweet spot. Seven runs were made in the same exact location on the lake, all going in the same direction. The highest and lowest speeds recorded were eliminated and the remaining results were added together and divided by five to give us an avereage. Smooth water testing on day one produced a 71.6MPH average with my skegless plate attached. That plate was quickly removed and the mod 4 plate was installed. Once again runs were made and the plate shimmed to find the highest speed. After that seven runs were made and the average was figured, 71.4MPH was that average. At this point I remembered that my tabs had been shimmed for use with the skegless plate. I removed the shims and ran the gauntlet again. 71.5MPH with the Mod 4 with no shims under the tabs. Back to the nearly stock machine. His machine had been shimmed and dialed in with the mod 4 plate installed with me driving it. After seven the average stood at 67.2 MPH. The skegless plate installed and shimmed, runs were made and the average was 67.4MPH. At this point it seemed the skegless was faster on a nearly stock boat but the same or slightly slower on a boat with some mods. Both plates were very close, probably within a margin of error although we did our best to prevent any error. At this point the chart looks like this. This ended day one.------CALM CONDITIONS SMOOTH WATER (3"ripple or less)
Stock ski ----67.2mph ---------67.4mph
Mod ski ------71.5mph--------- 71.6mph
Day 2 we moved into the rougher water. The conditions for testing were 10-12" of chop. The testing for day two was conducted the same way as day one with the exception that no shims were changed to find the highest speed in the rough. In other words, we put the same amount of shims under each plate on each machine that provided the highest speed for our smooth water testing. We did this to simulate the real world possibility of using one of these plates as your everday ride plate set on kill, but riding into rougher water like most probably will. Lets face it, these are not the preferred choice for a rough water plate and if we were to race or ride in rough conditions we would own a different plate. The chart for day 2 looks like this.
------MEDIUM CHOP (10-12")
-------------MOD 4--------- SKEGLESS
Stock ski ----58.5mph------- 57.4mph
Mod ski ------62.2mph------- 61.4mph
What I get from these findings is that unless your building a max effort glass runner, there is very little to be gained from removing skegs. Skegless still held the top spot after this test but at the cost of some speed in the chop. Now I realize that these plates weren't optimally set up for the chop, but I would be running a different setup all together if that was my game. IMO the .1mph gained in smooth conditions is not worth the .8mph in the chop. After all, we won't always run into an RXP in a glass cove. Questions? Opinions? Comments?
07-13-2007, 04:09 PM #9
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
That looks like a fair and accurate assesment to me. I agree with your final conclusion as well. An 80+ mph boat might have different results but thats always the case.
07-13-2007, 09:53 PM #10
Why do you think the skegged plate is faster on a modded ski? I was thinking that maybe when the speed of the ski increases, the plate actually rises up off the water slightly and rides more on the skeg. This would mean the angle of the plate is what raises the bow higher but the skeg rises the REAR of the machine out of the water at speed. Does anyone think this may be true? Has there been a comparison of skegged and skegless on any higher speed skis? I'm sure different rules start to apply as speed goes up. What does an FF plate look like, I've never seen one. Does it look totally different than a R&D or stocker? Sorry if these are dumb questions, just trying to think out loud and make sense of it all. Thanks.
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