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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Tampa, FL
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    Help, New member trying to debug XL800

    OK, I need some good advice and help. I took my supposedly fixed XL800 down to Tampa Bay to test it out after installing the new starter rely and a new AGM battery. Since it was now running good at home it was time to start the water testing.

    Well, I got it in the water, started perfect, idled away fine, then I sped up to around 15 mph and everything was fine, then I sped up some more and it seemed to hit a power band, (is this normal?) and it took off, planed off and was going around 38 mph, this was all in a couple minutes, totally stoked....then it died. So I waited a few seconds for the power valves to reset, and it started back up OK, and I idled away then sped up to around 15 mph, then opened it up again and it planed out, then died, sooner than before. Now I'm upset and worried. So I started it again and idled around for a much longer time to see if I could at least idle back to the ramp, this went well but then it started missing and died. I finally got it to the beach and from then on it would not start at all, but still turning over, and before each attempt to start it would beep twice and the warning light flashed.

    Well, got it home, tried to start it and it would only beep twice, turn over but not start.


    SO, any ideas??? I am going to go through the fuel system next week, since I have gone through the starting system this week.

    Never seemed hot, seemed fuel staved but also smelling gas, PLUS there was some oil in the bilge, maybe a oil line leaking?? First thing I will change is the fuel filter. Is there a better after market filter?? Also the gas is around 6 months old, so that outa there too. I sure hope Idon't have to take off the carbs just yet...the engine only has 76 hours on it.

    I sure hope some of you will chime in on this perplexing dilemma!!!

    havanabama


  2. #2
    Moderator OsideBill's Avatar
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    Like on any engine three things to check first Spark? Fuel? Compression?
    is it getting spark?
    is it getting fuel?
    what is the compression of the two cylinders?

    Missed the part about oil in the hull. Find this issue!!! if you had an oil line come off you may have some serious cylinder issues. compression test will verify this in a hurry.
    Last edited by OsideBill; 08-18-2007 at 01:44 PM.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by osidebill View Post
    Like on any engine three things to check first Spark? Fuel? Compression?
    is it getting spark?
    is it getting fuel?
    what is the compression of the two cylinders?

    Following up on Bill's comments:

    For instance, look for good compression of say 125 and 125 psig. If the compression in the cylinders are more than 10 psig apart then you might consider pulling the head to inspect. If the compression is good AND consistent, then move onto the next step.

    Check fuel. That is you pull the plugs and drop about 5cc's of gas (with 2 stroke oil in it), then try to start it. If it starts but does not stay running, then pull the choke to try to keep it running. If you can keep it running this way, then check fuel filter first, then flapper in gas tank, then carbs.

    If good fuel and compression but will not start then check for spark. If no spark, then you will have to get with someone who has better mechanicing skills than I have. That should not be hard at all!!!.

    At least this will give you a path to follow. Personally, I think you may have lost a cylinder. You never know unless you check.

    Good luck.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
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    41
    Thanks again guys, Next week I'll install the Wave Eater clips so at that time I'll do a comression test, and if bad, continue to take it apart since I'll have part of the exhaust off.

    I did check the spark when I was going through the starting system and did notice that the rear plug didn't have as big of a spark, but it did run good at home, smooth with both cylinders firing.

    Does anyone know how the fuel pumps work since they are part of the carbs and are not electronic. If I drain all the old gas and replace the fuel filter, will the carb fuel pumps prime the fuel lines through the new fuel filter??

    Also, how important is it to release pressure from the gas tank before running? Does the tank pressure put too much pressure on the carb needles and potentially cause flooding??

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
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    OK here is what I have found out and my new assumptions. I bought a good compression tester and performed a test. The rear cylinder was 90 and the front one was 120. Then since it did start and I warmed it up before the test, when I took out the plugs the front was wet and oily ...normal...the rear was dry sooting...no oil.. Now I said before that after I ran it on the water for a few minutes and it died, there was oil in the bilge, well I assume now that the rear cylinder oil line has come lose or not completely connected, thus the rear has lower compression, no oil, that the engine shut down from over heating from the rear cylinder.

    So since I have to install the Wave Eater clips, I got to take off the exhaust and then the carb covers , fire arrestor etc, so I can get to the oil feed lines on the rear carb, and hopefully I can detect a lose oil line and maybe see where it was leaking oil.

    Hasn't there been some debate about this???

    What will be my best way to secure the oil lines, just new zip ties or what.

    Please let me know what you all think. With the rear cylinder at 90 psi, I assume if I can get oil to it and get it running, the oil will help the pressure get back to at least 110, then I won't have to remove the jugs.

    havanabama

  6. #6

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    There is a lot more to haveing good compression than just adding oil. You also have to have a certain amount of compression for the whole ignition/explosion/power thing to function properly inside a cylinder. 90 psig is not going to get it done. Not only that, you have a difference of 30 psig between #1 and #2 cylinders.

    Your symptoms are pointing to some sort of damage inside the cylinder. You really should pull the head to inspect. Take pictures and post if you do not see the problem.

    A good rule of thumb about a 2 stroke is this: Pull it out of the water and put it on a trailer if you think that you have a problem with it. When a 2 stroke motor goes bad, running it just makes the problem get worse, and it gets more expensive the longer you run it.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Thanks Salty, today I start the disassembly. Any secrets to getting all the bolts out without braking any off!!! I hope to have the exhaust pipe and intake silencer off today and be able to see the oil feed line to the rear carb.

    I'll take pics if I get to the point of taking off the jugs, which according you , I prolly will be doing later this week!!

    Back in the day when I was a motcrosser, I took my engines apart all the time, so hopefully those skills will come into play!!

    havanabama

    PS, still haven't heard anybody chim in on the prob with oil line coming off.

  8. #8
    dhoad's Avatar
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    oil lines coming off is common. put some better clamps on, no more zipties
    carl at island sells oetiker clamps or go to premix to prevent seizure.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Cool, Thanks, I have an email and a call into Island Racing.

  10. #10

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    You should not have any problems with the bolts. Take standard precautions in disassembly... go slow.

    If you are dead set on going back to oil injection, then replace that tubing. It is probably getting hard.

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