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  1. #1
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    AIRFLOW Info (GREEN WATERBOX)...

    Hey All! Got some more flow bench info…

    Just some history on the bench and the numbers. This bench is used by my father to tune exhaust systems for OEM applications. We have spent many hours flowing things from waterboxes to exhaust systems to IC’s…

    The machine is VERY sensitive, and it can show just the slightest change in construction style, configuration, etc...We can either pull air through something (like an air intake) or push air through something (like an exhaust)….

    The machine uses a centrifugal compressor, similar to our SC’s on our skis, to push/pull a measured volume of air at any speed desired. This compressor is computer controlled, and we can set the desired speed, air flow rate, volume, etc…






    We have the machine set up to test backpressure. The air passes through an exit tube into the item that you are testing. In this tube is an outlet, which runs to a water filled “ruler”. The water levels itself when normal, so where the lines intersect is considered ZERO. Adjust the sliding ruler to mark zero, and begin…



    As air passes through the tube, and if it does not see any resistance (like a muffler) then there is no backpressure generated…IF there is a backpressure generated, then the air flow will “backup” and pressurize the small exit tube. When it pressurizes, the water level raises/drops, and you just measure the difference…





    The computer controls can show you the flow rate when the backpressure rises/falls. It can also show you the amount of air volume at that given time. So if you what a specific airflow rate, you adjust the motor until you get it on each test item…Want to see how much you can push through something, it can show you…

    The motor speed is measured in Hz, which is the same as RPM. The max speed is 60 Hz, which if you work it out, 60hz is 60 rotations a second…so 60x60 = 3600 RPM…The volume is rated in differently, and can be dialed to 3 places past the decimal point. The numbers on the machine state that 0.500 volume rate is equivalent to a 2.0L motor running at 5,000 rpm. I played with the numbers and figured that a 1.5L 4TEC motor turning at 6000 (cruise speed) is just around .450-460 volume. The target number we aimed for is 0.460, and adjusted the blower speed accordingly when testing.

    EXAMPLE = If you had 2 items to flow, and test item #1 showed .460 volume, with motor speed of 25.0 Hz, and 15.0” of in/water backpressure…Test item #2 showed .460 volume, with motor speed of 23.5 Hz, and 12.5” of in/water backpressure…..This means that item #2 made the blower put LESS EFFORT to push the SAME VOLUME through a LESS RESTRICTIVE item……..See how that works?




    We flowed a few scenerio's....

    - COMPLETE OEM exhaust (Jpipe, waterbox, rubber hose, resonator...)
    - Gutted shorty box w/ RIVA pipe
    - Green Box
    - Jpipe, alone and modded (see below)











    Both OEM and Shorty/Riva were graciously donated by Snoman for the test. He had to take apart both his and his wife’s ski 06 RXP’s, but don’t tell her …So THANKS Snoman!

    We started by flowing a baseline of the OEM exhaust system. This unit was removed, as one chunk (untouched from factory) from an 06 RXP. The resonator used is from the other ski, which the shorty/Riva combo replaced…Flowing the setup yielded the numbers below. We even removed the resonator, and replaced it with a simple 9” pipe used in the Resonator Bypass Mod…The results show an expected drop…You can get this tube here: http://www.4-tecperformance.com/inde...roducts_id=534


    *** Just a note, that the gutted shorty box in this testing was particular to THIS TEST. We have flowed other gutted boxes (shorty and full size) and found a range of 6.9-8.0 in/water range. These numbers represent a box in middle range.***


    OEM
    OEM setup (Jpipe+box+hose+resonator) = 24.9 in/water
    OEM w/o resonator = 23.4 in/water

    Gutted Shorty
    Gutted shorty alone = 7.4 in/water
    Gutted shorty + RIVA pipe = 8.0 in/water
    Jpipe + Gutted shorty = 14.3 in/water
    Jpipe + Gutted shorty + RIVA = 15.1 in/water
    Total package = 15.1 in/water





    GREEN BOX
    Green box alone = 8.5 in/water
    Jpipe + Green Box = 16.0 in/water
    Total package = 16.0 in/water





    Jpipe FLARE
    The Jpipe exit opening is 2" ID, and we found that if you FLARED (trapazoid) the exit 1/4", you can reduce backpressure on the pipe by 37%...OEM pipe flows 7.5 in/water, a flared unit flow 4.75 in/water...





    The FLARE causes a vaccum effect, thus sucking the air out of the pipe. This is a technique used by auto manufactures to reduce backpressure in the system, and even reduce noise at the tailpipe. Check out some of your cars, you'll see the step in the system. This flare is in the OEM muffler itself.

    As demonstrated in the step up in ID of the JPipe, you must make the flare uniform through the enlargement and around the opening to get the proper trapazoid effect....

    With that flare, we reran the flow again and the numbers dropped 2+ inches....


    FLARED Jpipe + Gutted shorty + RIVA = 13.0 in/water...13.0/15.1, or 13.9% reduction...

    FLARED Jpipe + Green Box = 13.6 in/water...13.6/16, or 15% reduction


    We HAVE NOT tested a Jpipe that was trimmed, but from flow numbers, the trimmed unit would flow the same as the pipe untrimmed...


    Final Numbers
    (including Jpipe)

    OEM setup = 24.9 in/water
    Green Box = 16.0 in/water
    Gutted box w/ RIVA pipe = 15.1 in/water

    Green Box, FLARED Jpipe = 13.6 in/water
    Gutted box w/ RIVA pipe, FLARED Jpipe= 13.0 in/water






    Conclusion

    The time and effort (and $$$) of gutting a box, PLUS a Riva (or equivilant style) exhaust, is not as cost effective compared to the GreenBox......This makes the GreenBox a "best buy"....

    BUT, if you already have a Riva (or equivilant style) exhaust installed on your OEM waterbox, you can get results just like the GreenBox by gutting/shortening it per the "Tip of the Day:WaterBox Mod" = http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14329

    The addition of a FLARE on the JPipe is a nice "compliment" for the exhaust system, and would be a recommended mod to get some additional flow and reduce the backpressure the motor sees....ESPECIALLY anyone cranking 8100+....



    ******** REMEMBER, these numbers are for AIRFLOW ONLY...They DO NOT represent any numbers in regards to EXHAUST HEAT, WATER INJECTION, or BOTH.....ALSO, it represents ANY 4TEC motor (N/A, non-IC SC'd, SC'd) that is spinning at roughly 6000 RPM, and does reflect any other modifications such as external IC, air intake, SC upgrades, etc....Nor does it reflect airflow behavior above 6000 RPM, such as modded motors that spin at 8100-8600 RPM...BUT these numbers can predict what effect some mods will do at those air rates...




    For more information on the Flare, flow numbers, or anything concerning these number…please PM me or email me at [email protected]...


    --Danny





    ***** Other airflow work is available in these threads...

    OEM IC
    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18850

    OEM Waterbox and Full Size Gutted
    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24191

    Piranha/Riva IC and XS IC
    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19138

    Rotax Racing IC
    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19138
    Last edited by Danny; 10-03-2007 at 12:35 AM.


  2. #2
    Whats that whistling noise? jtskier11's Avatar
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    Nice testing and summary. So in essence, Jerrys box will provide better scavenging and maybe a bit of power over just a plain rear exhaust kit? Without the extra noise too.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtskier11 View Post
    Nice testing and summary. So in essence, Jerrys box will provide better scavenging and maybe a bit of power over just a plain rear exhaust kit? Without the extra noise too.
    OEM box and rear exhaust kits is more restrictive than Jerry's box. Testing showed (in other threads) that the OEM box UNTOUCHED flows 15.1 in/water by itself. Adding a Riva pipe will raise that close to 16.

    Here is the link to the greenbox in the store, it has a YouTube video. What you are hearing is EXACTLY what I flowed above...
    http://www.4-tecperformance.com/inde...roducts_id=528

  4. #4
    Whats that whistling noise? jtskier11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    OEM box and rear exhaust kits is more restrictive than Jerry's box. Testing showed (in other threads) that the OEM box UNTOUCHED flows 15.1 in/water by itself. Adding a Riva pipe will raise that close to 16.

    Here is the link to the greenbox in the store, it has a YouTube video. What you are hearing is EXACTLY what I flowed above...
    http://www.4-tecperformance.com/inde...roducts_id=528
    SOLD!!! I really had no idea that something of that nature could really flow that well.
    Last edited by jtskier11; 10-02-2007 at 11:05 PM.

  5. #5
    .... RXPwildchild's Avatar
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    Well, I thought I had some cool toys.... you win!
    Thanks for the flow info.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtskier11 View Post
    SOLD!!!

    Jerry, do I get yelled at for making the waiting list LONGER?
    Last edited by Danny; 10-02-2007 at 11:14 PM.

  7. #7
    HORSEPOWER JUNKIE 9secZO6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtskier11 View Post
    Nice testing and summary. So in essence, Jerrys box will provide better scavenging and maybe a bit of power over just a plain rear exhaust kit? Without the extra noise too.
    Don't go thinking this thing is quiet....I have a rude and spin 8500, but it will sound mean on anything. When riding 60+ u won't hear much more, but people around u will. I have been told by most that it sounds like a crew boat but I finally let my buddy ride it the other day while I listened......not TOO loud but definitly commands attention! My rive thru hull was very tame w/ stock waterbox compared to this. This box is incredible and I want 1 for the other ski......"Thank u sir may I have another?"

  8. #8
    MIARider's Avatar
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    It took you long enough !!! Great job Brotha, thanks for taking the time to do this for us. and thanks to Snoman for donating his parts. Now we have to wait til snowman gives us some actual test runs.

  9. #9
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    Its fun to test and post info like that, so thank you guys for letting me....

    Snoman's combo runs great, the flare pipe will be his new addition...

    I've been running the flare pipe on mine for a few weeks, works great. But I also combined it with a modded box at the same time, so I can't get back-to-back testing...

    I'm getting my hands on a JPipe that is already trimmed, so we'll flow it and get some numbers. Gonna try to flare it also, see if that can help also...

  10. #10
    EZ Dock of Long Island Shibby1485's Avatar
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    very... veryyyyy nicely done Danny. Thanks for all the data.

    I gotta post a picture tomorrow of my exhaust Danny... my parts are all at work otherwise i'd do it now

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