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  1. #1

    03 msx 140...dies at idle..plz help!

    hey guys, i just replaced my plugs in my 03 msx 140. and the ski hasnt sounded this good in 5 years at wot no lie. but at idle even after warming the ski up for a good hour it dies.

    now when i gapped the new plugs, i just took one of the old ones, measured it, then used plyers to bend the tabs on the new plugs to the same size as just that one plug. i then hand tightened the plugs back in snuggly, not overtight, not loose...and thats the problem im having...

    anybody know what my problem is? in retrospect i wish i would have taken one plug at a time out and gapped the new one to the old one for each cylinder..but that is pretty much impossible now to change that...
    thanks in advance...

    durkinz-


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Why post this twice within minutes of the other post?

  3. #3
    sorry, but my last post was in somebody elses thread, which was me explaining to him what i did to fix our somewhat similar problem, trying to help him out if possible...i just threw this question in at the end to sort of greaten my chances of somebody seeing it and responding... and right after i clicked
    "submit reply" in his thread, i decided that i should probably start my own thread with my problem in the title... thanks tho

    durkinz-

  4. #4

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    Yup, mine also dies at idle. Has just 4 hours on brand new engine. Do not htink it is plugs though. Maybe EMM/injector issue. I am going to look at my masnual.

    Anybody?

  5. #5
    ok guys, i re-checked the spark plug gaps, they where all fine...i also changed out the tps with a new one. The engine still dies after like a second of idling, unless i blurp the engine until im at WOT....

    i just dont know where to look....i paint cars, trucks, boats etc. for a living, lol so my mechanics skills are limited when it comes to engines...and i like to fix my vehicles myself, i don't trust other shops...so if u guys could help that'd be awesome...

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Have you worked through all the diagnostics in the Service Manual?

    Remind us what you have checked, what the results were, and how this problem came to be.

  7. #7
    ph2ocraft's Avatar
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    If the problem started after the plug change put the old ones back in and see if it still idles. If it does, verify you have the correct plugs and that you didn't ruin them with the pliers.
    Might I recommend you get the proper gapping tool and check the tech section for the correct gap??

  8. #8
    correct gap should be .028 +/- .002 just put a new set of NGKs in. if you went to autozone and got the equivalent I would strongly recomend you take them out quickly. You will pay for that after about 2 hours on the engine. Use the recomended NGK spark plugs. Also adjust your TPS to make sure its not low...We had this problem and we ended up checking with the dealer for recalls on my ski and their was a recall for the computer (or whatever you call it in the back) and the TPS one of those fixed it.

    Also just a side note check to see if your getting spark from all your plugs.



    good luck! once its running its a great ski

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durkinz View Post
    ...replaced my plugs in my 03 msx 140. ...I just took one of the old ones, measured it, then used pliers to bend the tabs on the new plugs to the same size as just that one plug. I then hand tightened the plugs back in snuggly...
    Of the last dozen NGK PZFR6H spark plugs I bought new, only one was not at exactly the correct gap of 0.028" to 0.032", and that one plug was only slightly off (maybe 0.034"). It would have run just fine, but I tweaked it inwards just a couple of thousands of an inch.

    You saying you needed pliers to adjust the plugs means that either you did not have the correct NGK plugs, or you were adjusting them to the wrong measurement.

    These NGK PZFR6H Platinum tipped spark plugs are not cheap to buy, but they are the ONLY spark plug you should use in your Ficht fuel injected engine. PZFR6H spark plugs are over $10 each, I think, maybe $20.

    When adjusting spark plug gaps, you really must use the correct tool - a spark plug gapping tool. Sold at any automotive supply store.

    The Platinum tips of these NGK spark plugs are brittle and fragile. You cannot apply ANY force to the center electrode - none. Try not to do any more than just touch it when checking the gap.

    Only the outer ground electrode on the spark plug may be adjusted (bent), and even that may only be moved a TINY little bit. You must use the proper tool, to avoid over stressing the metal. You can not bend and re-bend the electrode multiple times to get it right. Bend it once, just the right amount, and thats all.

    Spark plugs need to be tightened to exactly 18ft-lbs torque when installed, NOT finger tight. The correct torque ensures that the metal gasket around the base of the spark plug properly seals to the cylinder head, AND it ensures that the spark plug can properly transfer combustion head to the cylinder head, thereby preventing the plug from overheating.

    The spark plug threads need to be clean and free of excessive oil or grease.

    I would suggest you install another set of NGK plugs, without touching the factory gaps. Also ensure the plug wires are properly installed onto the plugs and the coils. When pulling the caps off the plugs, you must grip the rubber boot, and not pull on the plug wires, which are rather thick looking, but actually rather fragile inside.

  10. #10
    first, thanks for the input, and sorry for the miscommunications, i didn't literally "hand tighten" the plugs in...thats just the vernacular we use in my field when we don't use air tools... ( for example if we tighten a set of lug nuts on a car and use a socket-wrech, or torque wrench, not an impact, we would say we hand tighten them) but ill be more descriptive from now on, and that was ignorant on my part.

    laxidiot87: i went to autozone and handed the guy one of the old spark plugs, and told him i need three of these.. he checked the computer and grabbed me the new set which you would expect to be the equivelant of what i handed him.. (NOPE i got "Autolite APP 5224") so what exactly do the wrong ones do? because i probably do have around an hour or two at least on them by now, and this scares me, because im positive now the wrong ones are installed.

    K447: as for the gaps.. when i first installed them, i gapped two of them to 0.029" and one at 0.031", i then re-measured and re-gapped the one plug to 0.029" to match the others...(unsure whether they need to be the same gap, or if they can be different as long as they are within the range u specified?) either way, all three now match at 0.029"

    to explain the whole "plyers" thing.. i did not have a gap tool, i just used a needle-nose, a little pressure and bent the electrode probably 0.004" to where they needed to be (without touching the tip, or leaving marks)

    for how everything came about and the updates etc,
    I bought the ski brand new in 03'. I took it out for a couple of hours before learning the whole "bad design" of how the intake cover digs into the air temp sensor, and promptly fixed it, although the sensor had already been punctured. The sensor hasn't been a problem since. Two years ago, I recieved the recall notices by mail and took the ski in; they fixed the 3 or 4 that came up for my HIN.. my friend took the ski out for the first ride after, and 45 minutes later, with me worried as hell, another ski finally towed him back. He told me it started up perfect, he took off to warm it up, and a half mile away from the landing, the engine lost all power, and although the engine would start and run perfect, the ski would not move at all and while in the water was rev locked in the 2k rpm range(although trailered it would rev to redline). so again i looked to the forums...people were telling me a range of things that could be wrong, the two that everybody decided on were the fuel pump, and possibly the tps sensor...i took it to the dealer for them to check it out they told me it was the fuel pump and it'd be $800 to fix. i decided to do it myself and got a brand new pump and tps for 300 bucks and started that nightmare.(lol i had a full tank of gas, and the whole tank has to be moved forward to remove the old pump assembly, or else id have to take out the whole steering assembly which i was nervous to do at first. but i did and everything went back together just fine..) anyway 10 hours later i finally got the new pump installed and took it straight out to the river, and it was still doing the same thing. discouraged, went back to the forums and read where the tps was and about it, opened the seat up looked where the tps should be and it was hanging next to the engine, with all 3 bolts nowhere to be found lol. i plugged it in after figuring out how the spring sits and bolted it on with new bolts; took out the ski and ran perfect. then like an idiot one day i forgot to screw in the bilge plugs and was in the water for around 10 minutes till i saw the ski's ass sitting a little low, and had to have my friends boat tow me back to the trailer...i didnt run the motor while partly submerged, so no hydrolock, and not much water was in the hull anyways, but i let it air dry for a week and she's ran perfect up until now. 2 weeks ago took the ski out for probably the 4th time this summer, and it was very very choppy out. ran the ski for about 20 minutes total, trailer'd the ski, took it home. put the cover on and it sat in my driveway undisturbed until last friday, i put the ski in the water, it started right up as always i tied off to the dock, parked the truck, came back to warm her up, and the ski would not go above 28-32mph and 4400 rpms. Saturday changed the tps, spark plugs, and cleaned the flame arrestor, dried it with very low compressed air, and when i had the intake cover off i took out the air temp sensor to get the part #s off it, when i put it all back together i simply twisted the air temp sensor 180 degrees (figured it couldnt hurt lol) bolted it back on and took it to the lake. started up fine but cut out after a second of idling. ..went to warm it up and to see if my problem was fixed, and although it kept dying if i idled, at WOT she ran perfect once again. sunday morning i re-gapped the one spark plug so they are all at 0.029" and took the ski back out and it ran the exact same way as the day before. i havent rode it since. the only other information i have is that after running at WOT for a bit the ski would idle for quite a while longer...and that i only have 47 or 48 hours on the ski

    i know this was alot to read, but i just gave you my ski's life story basically...lol, i left nothing out, and i hope something may better help you guys to help me.. which again i cant stress enough, i GREATLY appreciate.

    durkinz-

    p.s. lol come on guys, i work on cars everyday, and although im usually on the outside, i said my mechanical skills are limited, not absent haha. ive done many engine modifications and fixed plenty of problems, what i meant was, basically if i had to take an engine apart to diagnose a problem or use the information im giving you guys right now, i obviously can NOT.... lol. again though, thats my fault for not being more explicative. thank you for your help though!
    Last edited by durkinz; 07-08-2008 at 03:43 AM.

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