Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 203
  1. #1

    When do I need an EFI fuel controller?

    Making this post in reference to the most asked question here in yamaha 2 stroke section.
    Fuel controllers add fuel to the engine and do nothing else.

    The standard R&D and Riva controllers are the same thing.

    The R&D powershot fuel controller has the adjustable LED lights and is a prettier version of the same thing, which i will go over later in this post.

    The stock fuel circuit at WOT is very rich, and needs no extra fuel on a non ported engine, even with a 3 degree keyway and machined cylinder head.
    The midrange circuit 4000-5500 is lean and that is the circuit that needs more fuel.
    The number one pot on the standard controller is for the main or cruising circuit.
    The number 2 pot acts as an accellerator pump when the throttle is stabbed.
    The number 3 pot is for the WOT circuit.
    The number 4 pot is the rpm at which it crosses over from the main circuit, to the WOT circuit.
    The pot positions are read as you would read the hand of a clock, from 1 being the leanest, which is on the stock fuel curve, to 11 being the richest.

    Common question.
    I have a Riva flame arrestor and vf3 reeds, d plate and free flow tube on my non ported ski. Do i need a fuel controller?
    NO, you dont need one, but the installation of one will enhance your midrange performance, but do nothing for your top speed, rpms.

    I ran my sonic boom throttle bodies on a bone stock 1300 for 6 months without a fuel controller and it did fine, but was a touch lean in the midrange circuit.

    A fuel controller in not necessary until the compression, and or, 3 or more degree timing keyway is installed, which creates higher cylinder temps.

    Non ported 1300 engines baseline EFI settings.
    5-5-1-6

    Ported 1300 engines baseline EFI settings.
    7-7-7-7

    Ported 1390 engines baseline settings.
    11-11-11-7

    Baseline are starting numbers that usually are on the rich side, but should be very close to perfect from my experience.
    Remember your EFI ski has a barometric pressure and temp sensor which automatically changes your fuel curve with changes in the weather, so changing your EFI settings because the weather is 30 degrees cooler should not be necessary. The ECM will do that for you automatically.

    Many modifications work well together as a kit, but poor by themselves.
    I suggest saving $ until the modifications can all be installed as a package for maximum results and minimum headaches.

    Rich (WFO) and i have talked about this, and he will add to this post from his vast experience with efi skis also, in an attempt to clear up some of the muddy information that is out there.
    Thanks, Ross
    Last edited by rossnemo; 07-10-2008 at 09:00 AM.


  2. #2
    Haven't fallen yet. MJE's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts
    Posts
    467
    +1
    39
    sticky this...

    Ross you are the man

  3. #3
    African-American
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,226
    +1
    88
    important information from this topic

    Quote Originally Posted by rossnemo View Post
    powershot fuel addition amount settings

    green value * * * * * * * * 4
    yellow value * * * * * * * * 5.5
    red value * * * * * * * * 3

    powershot crossover position settings

    green/blue value * * * * * * * * 0
    yellow/blue * * * * * * * * 4
    red/blue value * * * * * * * * 4

    this the r&d chart for what they call both a stage one and a stage 2 gp1300r.
    The fuel addition portion is the same as the original controller, except it is more accurate in its adjustment as it uses led lights on a 1-9 scale, and is programmable in .5 increments. So instead of having only a 1-2 or 3 as a setting, you can use a 1.5- 2.5- 3.5 etc. Its a little more accurate and much easier to read.
    The crossover portion is different. You simply have a crossover that picks a rpm that turns on each of the 3 fuel addition settings.
    Using the 0 on the green led would turn on the fuel to that circuit immediately upon startup, or by raising the setting you could delay the addition of fuel to the rpm of your choice.
    I do not know how the correlation chart would be from the number on the crossover setting to the rpm it would activate at.
    The only setting on the chart that is off is the number 3 fuel addition setting which they reccomend at a 3.
    This is very rich for a non ported 1300. I ran my egt system to monitor temps and ended up using the lowest setting, which they would call a zero for the red wot led.
    My fuel addition settings i use on my non ported ski with all the bolt ons are
    green 5.0
    yellow 5.5
    red 0

    my crossovers are set as they reccomend on the chart, and i really havent experimented with them much.
    On my egt gauge i had a 10-15 degree drop for every half point i dropped the red led. From their reccomended 3, to the zero i ended up at i went from 1010 degrees at the rich 3 setting, to 1065 degrees at the zero setting.
    I raised the midrange settings to cool the burn a little. The non ported 1300 runs very hot at 4000-4500, around 1220 degrees, and that was on their reccomended 4 setting, so a little extra fuel there took 20-30 degrees off it, and it has a killer holeshot for a non ported 1300.
    I have not used this on a ported 1300 so i have no info on that. Im sure the fuel addition settings would be higher, especially the red led, to maybe a 5 or 6.
    The best thing about this controller is, according to glen at r&d. It can be reprogrammed to add even more fuel if necessary with different software!
    Hope this helps everyone.
    Thanks, ross
    Quote Originally Posted by wfo View Post
    sorry i am late joining this thread ross... Wrote this up the other day and got busy

    at the request of one of the top tuners on the forum, me and rossnemo have decided to put up some threads about the riva and r&d efi controllers. Hopefully this will help people decide what settings to use and when a controller is actually needed. Settings vary from boat to boat, but hopefully some of this info will be a good starting point. This info is from my personal experience and not just "i read somewhere" facts.

    The riva controller has 3 mixture settings (idle/midrange/high speed) and a crossover setting. You should read the dials like you read a clock. Also read the controller with the wires coming out of the right side. Top dial is idle circuit.

    -first off when is a controller really needed ?
    Contrary to popular belief, you do not need a controller when adding an air filter or freeflow exhaust. The wot fuel mapping is pretty rich already on top end from the factory. This also applies when installing a d-plate, an aftermarket prop, a rideplate or any aftermarket handling parts.

    -do i need one when adding just aftermarket reeds ?
    Reeds help with air/fuel delivery. I feel a controller is really not needed for wot circuit, but i do recommend adding one with aftermarket reeds because it helps smooth out midrange circuit.

    -do i need one with higher compression ?
    Yes recommended

    -do i need a controller when installing just a jetworks modifiction ?
    Not at all

    -do i need a controller with a keyway ?
    We have run a stock 06 with just a 3degree keyway with no efi controller and had no problems. Pistonwash looked fine.

    -do i need a controller with porting ?
    Absolutely. Porting an engine is when you really need the controller the most. Obviously along with porting you will add compression, aftermarket reeds, exhaust freeflow, and air filter.

    Lets look at some combinations...
    -aftermarket air filter and freeflow- no controller needed
    -milled head, air filter, freeflow- yes recommended
    -air filter and reeds- not needed but recommended
    -milled head, reeds, airfilter, freeflow- yes needed
    -milled head, air filter, advance timing keyway- yes needed
    -porting with all the goodies- yes needed
    Quote Originally Posted by wfo View Post
    to add a little

    baseline 1300 settings
    powervalve non-ported
    5-5-1-7, 5-6-1-7

    non-pv non-ported
    5-5-1-6, 5-6-1-6

    pv ported
    6-6-6-7, 6-7-7-7

    non-pv ported
    5-6-5-6, 6-6-6-6

    radical motor ported settings (reeds w/lots of timing and compression)
    5-9-7-7, 6-11-8-7
    Last edited by spaceman; 11-10-2009 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #4
    yami_rida#26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cayman Islands
    Posts
    2,112
    Nice post..

  5. #5
    ....back from the dead.... J-ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,577
    +1
    2
    Great post. This will help alot of people including myself.

    Thanks!

  6. #6
    Never say never KirkF350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Midlothian, Texas
    Posts
    4,433
    +1
    3
    Great post.

  7. #7
    DRC 4 LIFE TheDome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bridge City, Texas
    Posts
    1,257
    +1
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by rossnemo View Post
    Making this post in reference to the most asked question here in yamaha 2 stroke section.
    Fuel controllers add fuel to the engine and do nothing else.

    The standard R&D and Riva controllers are the same thing.

    The R&D powershot fuel controller has the adjustable LED lights and is a prettier version of the same thing, which i will go over later in this post.

    The stock fuel circuit at WOT is very rich, and needs no extra fuel on a non ported engine, even with a 3 degree keyway and machined cylinder head.
    The midrange circuit 4000-5500 is lean and that is the circuit that needs more fuel.
    The number one pot on the standard controller is for the main or cruising circuit.
    The number 2 pot acts as an accellerator pump when the throttle is stabbed.
    The number 3 pot is for the WOT circuit.
    The number 4 pot is the rpm at which it crosses over from the main circuit, to the WOT circuit.
    The pot positions are read as you would read the hand of a clock, from 1 being the leanest, which is on the stock fuel curve, to 11 being the richest.

    Common question.
    I have a Riva flame arrestor and vf3 reeds, d plate and free flow tube on my non ported ski. Do i need a fuel controller?
    NO, you dont need one, but the installation of one will enhance your midrange performance, but do nothing for your top speed, rpms.

    I ran my sonic boom throttle bodies on a bone stock 1300 for 6 months without a fuel controller and it did fine, but was a touch lean in the midrange circuit.

    A fuel controller in not necessary until the compression, and or, 3 or more degree timing keyway is installed, which creates higher cylinder temps.

    Non ported 1300 engines baseline EFI settings.
    5-5-1-6

    Ported 1300 engines baseline EFI settings.
    7-7-7-7

    Ported 1390 engines baseline settings.
    11-11-11-7

    Baseline are starting numbers that usually are on the rich side, but should be very close to perfect from my experience.
    Remember your EFI ski has a barometric pressure and temp sensor which automatically changes your fuel curve with changes in the weather, so changing your EFI settings because the weather is 30 degrees cooler should not be necessary. The ECM will do that for you automatically.

    Many modifications work well together as a kit, but poor by themselves.
    I suggest saving $ until the modifications can all be installed as a package for maximum results and minimum headaches.

    Rich (WFO) and i have talked about this, and he will add to this post from his vast experience with efi skis also, in an attempt to clear up some of the muddy information that is out there.
    Thanks, Ross
    Needs to be a sticky, good info Ross..

  8. #8
    YamahaToys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
    583
    Great!!!!

  9. #9
    POWERSHOT FUEL ADDITION AMOUNT SETTINGS

    GREEN VALUE * * * * * * * * 4
    YELLOW VALUE * * * * * * * * 5.5
    RED VALUE * * * * * * * * 3

    POWERSHOT CROSSOVER POSITION SETTINGS

    GREEN/BLUE VALUE * * * * * * * * 0
    YELLOW/BLUE * * * * * * * * 4
    RED/BLUE VALUE * * * * * * * * 4

    This the R&D chart for what they call both a stage one and a stage 2 gp1300r.
    The fuel addition portion is the same as the original controller, except it is more accurate in its adjustment as it uses led lights on a 1-9 scale, and is programmable in .5 increments. So instead of having only a 1-2 or 3 as a setting, you can use a 1.5- 2.5- 3.5 etc. Its a little more accurate and much easier to read.
    The crossover portion is different. You simply have a crossover that picks a rpm that turns on each of the 3 fuel addition settings.
    Using the 0 on the green led would turn on the fuel to that circuit immediately upon startup, or by raising the setting you could delay the addition of fuel to the rpm of your choice.
    I do not know how the correlation chart would be from the number on the crossover setting to the rpm it would activate at.
    The only setting on the chart that is off is the number 3 fuel addition setting which they reccomend at a 3.
    This is very rich for a non ported 1300. I ran my egt system to monitor temps and ended up using the lowest setting, which they would call a zero for the red WOT led.
    My fuel addition settings i use on my non ported ski with all the bolt ons are
    Green 5.0
    Yellow 5.5
    Red 0

    My crossovers are set as they reccomend on the chart, and i really havent experimented with them much.
    On my egt gauge i had a 10-15 degree drop for every half point i dropped the red led. From their reccomended 3, to the zero i ended up at i went from 1010 degrees at the rich 3 setting, to 1065 degrees at the zero setting.
    I raised the midrange settings to cool the burn a little. The non ported 1300 runs very hot at 4000-4500, around 1220 degrees, and that was on their reccomended 4 setting, so a little extra fuel there took 20-30 degrees off it, and it has a killer holeshot for a non ported 1300.
    I have not used this on a ported 1300 so i have no info on that. Im sure the fuel addition settings would be higher, especially the red led, to maybe a 5 or 6.
    The best thing about this controller is, according to glen at R&D. It can be reprogrammed to add even more fuel if necessary with different software!
    Hope this helps everyone.
    Thanks, Ross

  10. #10
    txgp1300r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas , Texas
    Posts
    3,362
    +1
    159
    great post Ross

Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. When do you need a fuel pressure regulator?
    By ptscon in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-24-2015, 06:55 PM
  2. FS R&d efi fuel controller
    By Bryan K in forum Yamaha Classifieds
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-03-2009, 09:41 PM
  3. FS Riva efi fuel controller 10 hrs
    By LS1300R in forum Yamaha Classifieds
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 08:59 AM
  4. Has anyone needed an EFI just with a jetworks holeshot kit?
    By jcorallo in forum Yamaha PWC Performance (2-stroke)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 08:24 AM
  5. When do i need to change the an old Intercooler
    By LAB69 in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-05-2007, 11:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •