Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 77
  1. #1
    Click my Avatar for signature links, Polaris info
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    27,264
    +1
    399

    Arrow Ethanol in gasoline - not good for Marine use, how to buy non-Ethanol gasoline

    Today I spoke with a technical fellow from Shell Canada, currently based in Ontario.

    I started researching which gasoline brands in my area (Ontario, Canada) have Ethanol in their premium gasolines. Ontario law has moved towards mandating a minimum of 5% 'renewable' content in gasoline sold here, which means Ethanol. This is regulated as an average per brand, so 5% of the overall gasoline volume must be Ethanol, not 5% in ALL gasoline sold under that brand.

    I won't get into the ethical or 'green' aspects of Ethanol in Canada and the US, which seems doubtful as a policy.

    I have not completed my research, so I will only mention the brands that I have confirmed the Ethanol content.

    Shell Canada includes 10% Ethanol in the regular 'Bronze' grade 87 Octane gasoline in several provinces, including Ontario, but not Alberta.

    Shell also sells 'Silver' mid-grade 89 Octane, which is blended at the retail pump from 1/2 regular, and 1/2 premium 91 Octane.

    Shell 'V-Power' Premium gasoline contains NO Ethanol, so the mid-grade Silver contains 5% Ethanol.

    This also applies to the private labelled Shell gasoline, such as Beaver gas stations in Ontario, which is actually Shell product.

    When Shell planned their move to Ethanol blended gasoline distribution, they recognized the issues with marine use of Ethanol gasoline. They now require all Shell brand Marina gasoline retailers to ONLY sell the V-Power premium 91 Octane fuel, thereby avoiding the problems of having Ethanol in the gasoline.

    Apparently some Shell 'Marine' gasoline retainers did not like this policy, and changed the brand they sell so they could continue to sell regular grade gasoline, which may contain Ethanol.

    On a related note, Ethanol contains 34% less energy per unit volume, so gasoline with 10% Ethanol will contain about 3.4% less energy than straight gasoline.

    Given the benefits of not having moisture attracting Ethanol in the tank, and the protection of a couple of points more octane, I am willing to pay the price premium for Shell 91 octane V-power gasoline (or other non-Ethanol premium grade gasoline).

    Ethanol also tends to wash lubricating oil from the cylinder walls, which is not a good thing for 2-stroke engines.

    By contrast, Sunoco in Ontario sells Gold 94 Octane fuel, which sounds great, but contains 10% Ethanol. Ethanol adds several octane points to the underlying gasoline grade, which is how Sunoco gets that higher Octane number.

    If moisture does get absorbed into Ethanol gasoline, the Ethanol becomes less soluble in the gasoline, and will settle out at the bottom of the tank. Not only is this Ethanol+water combination not combustible in the engine, the remaining gasoline sitting above this stuff in the tank has 3-4 octane LESS than it did before the moisture caused the Ethanol to drop out. So the remaining gasoline is also garbage, with an octane (for regular) of maybe 83-84.

    Shell has also installed special polymer filters inside their Ethanol retail gas pumps. If the underground gas storage tank becomes contaminated with water (or water absorbed into the Ethanol), the polymer material inside these filters expands rapidly, like a baby diaper, and plugs the filter, stopping the fuel flow. This means the retailer cannot sell Ethanol gasoline that has absorbed water.

    For me, this means I will not buy Sunoco gasoline for my PWC, or any other Marine engine. The lower energy content of Ethanol blended premium certainly doesn't appeal.

    I need to check, but I think Esso and Ultramar in Ontario are selling premium gasoline without Ethanol. I haven't checked the other brands yet...

    Update:
    Petro-Canada tells me that their premium SuperClean gasoline (91 octane, and 94 octane in Montréal, Vancouver and Victoria) does not contain Ethanol, all other Petro-Canada grades do (87 RegularClean, 89 PlusClean).
    "We use ethanol in our gasoline where legislation requires its use and where conditions warrant. To find ethanol-blended gasoline at our stations look for the yellow labels in the pump area indicating that the fuel may contain a maximum of 10% ethanol...most stations in Saskatchewan, parts of Southern Ontario (March 2007), Manitoba (December 2007) and the Montreal area (RegularClean/PlusClean in March 2007)"

    I suspect that Northern Ontario gasolines may not contain Ethanol, due to climate/moisture/storage issues.

    Here is a link to BRP (Evinrude) regarding Ethanol in gasoline.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Shell gasoline Ethanol labelling.JPG 
Views:	6293 
Size:	1.05 MB 
ID:	84731  
    Last edited by K447; 07-30-2008 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Evinrude link, Petro-Canada SuperClean


  2. #2
    SPEED KILLS, BUT YOU GET THERE QUICKER
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cedar Rapids,Iowa
    Posts
    6,468
    +1
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Ethanol also tends to wash lubricating oil from the cylinder walls, which is not a good thing for 2-stroke engines.
    As also not good for the main bearings spinning at over 6000 RPM's. Now were just talking WARM weather, When you start running Ethanol in Sub ZERO temps in 2 stroke snowmobiles you run into another can of worms that can cause problems.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina, United States
    Posts
    1,575
    Especially is you have an exposed fuel filter where the Watery goo, actually becomes Grey Ice and blocks your fuel lines

  4. #4
    2000 pro 785 (son's) 1998 pro 785 (dads)
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    sw lower mich
    Posts
    354
    thinking of trying new stabil "marine" formula for enthanol gas. suppose to help fight corrosion issues, seems like ti may keep the ethanol in suspendsion with the gas so it doent pick up water. supposedly better than enzeme products.
    looked into this yet k447? http://www.goldeagle.com/sta-bil/stabil_marine.htm
    ps hope this is posted correctly if not let me know how it should have been done.
    Last edited by old guy in mich; 07-24-2008 at 06:52 AM. Reason: addition

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    876
    +1
    4
    So what options do we have in Ontario that do not have Ethanol?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    stevens point wi
    Posts
    3,779
    im switching over to shell vpower...


    wouldn't you think that these newer marine engines would adapt some technologies from the current flex-fuel vehicles?

  7. #7
    Click my Avatar for signature links, Polaris info
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    27,264
    +1
    399
    Quote Originally Posted by old guy in mich View Post
    Thinking of trying Sta-Bil Marine formula for Ethanol gas.

    Supposed to help fight corrosion issues, seems like it may keep the ethanol in suspension with the gas so it doesn't pick up water. supposedly better than enzyme products.
    ...
    As far as I know, there is NO additive that will prevent the Ethanol from attracting moisture.

    As the moisture builds up in the Ethanol, the Ethanol starts to drop out of suspension, and again I don't think any additive can prevent this.

    These additives do other helpful things, but they do not prevent water from degrading Ethanol gasoline. All you can do is consume the fuel quickly enough that it doesn't sit around absorbing too much moisture, or buy gasoline without Ethanol.

    I don't think any fuel additive can prevent the degradation of older Marine fuel systems and rubber engine/carb seals that were manufactured before Ethanol became a concern.

    Keep in mind how much Ethanol is in the tank. 50 liters of 10% Ethanol means I have 5 liters of Ethanol in the tank. That would require a large quantity of additive to chemically affect that much Ethanol.

  8. #8
    Click my Avatar for signature links, Polaris info
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    27,264
    +1
    399
    Quote Originally Posted by gorilla03 View Post
    I'm switching over to Shell V-power...

    wouldn't you think that these newer marine engines would adapt some technologies from the current flex-fuel vehicles?
    Check with your local gasoline brands to see who is putting Ethanol in what grades of gasoline. Shell in Canada has Ethanol in some regions, not in others (Shell in Alberta I think has no Ethanol).

    There is a lot of modern engine technology that has been slow to reach the Marine world. There are some real differences between the environment a car operates in, and the watery world a boat experiences.

    And of course, boats and their engines get used differently than cars.

    Modern Marine engines do tolerate Ethanol (up to 10% I think) without problem, as long as the fuel is fresh, meets the specified minimum octane (89 for Polaris) and not contaminated with too much moisture.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    826
    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    .

    Modern Marine engines do tolerate Ethanol (up to 10% I think) without problem, as long as the fuel is fresh, meets the specified minimum octane (89 for Polaris) and not contaminated with too much moisture.
    How do you define "modern"?

    My local Shell station is now using E10 (10%), and that seems to be across the grades. They are giving out a fact sheet, that states that "Fuel enriched with 10% ethanol is manufacturer-approved for use in small engines, including power equipment, motorcycles, snowmobiles, and outboard motors."

    I plan to find a brand that hasn't gone to ethanol....

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    826
    Quote Originally Posted by old guy in mich View Post
    thinking of trying new stabil "marine" formula for enthanol gas. suppose to help fight corrosion issues, seems like ti may keep the ethanol in suspendsion with the gas so it doent pick up water. supposedly better than enzeme products.
    looked into this yet k447? http://www.goldeagle.com/sta-bil/stabil_marine.htm
    ps hope this is posted correctly if not let me know how it should have been done.
    I currently use Stabil in every tankful. I just visited the above link, and after reading all of the propaganda, I am going to be using the ethanol Stabil formula in my ski.

    Better to be safe...than sorry!

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-13-2013, 01:54 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-22-2012, 08:46 PM
  3. Good price for a used Triton Elite WCII?
    By Piraya33 in forum Towing and Trailers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-03-2010, 09:34 PM
  4. Inflatable PFD - not recommended for PWC use
    By shawn alladio in forum High Performance Watercraft Safety
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-10-2008, 12:38 AM
  5. Whats a good hand held GPS unit for marine use
    By qthor242 in forum Open Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-16-2008, 10:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •