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  1. #1

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    2003 Genesis trouble! HELP!!!

    Ok fellas need your help. First of all this is my first post and I must say after reading some posts here, you all are first class! Lots of good people here and valuable info. Here is my stroy!
    I am a tinkerer. I love to work on stuff. I am an aircraft mechanic and am pretty technically minded. Last night I was reading the local paper and an ad was run for an 03 Genesis for parts. I called, it was clean with 80 hours, and the owner said the dealer said it had a bad EMM. But it wasn't a Polaris dealer. So it has me wondering, maybe fuel, ignition, wiring, etc... Long story short, got it home tried to start and it misfires, back-fires and will not start. It tries to but, seems like no spark or timing systems. One huge backfire that scared my cat to the next county!! Do I assume EMM, something else? I have read a little about the digital wrench, dont know much about it, cost, etc.. Not afraid to use it, just dont have it. Does it store fault codes? Anyway to pull them if it does without DW? Looking forward to working with ya'll. If anyone is close to Granbury,TX and wants to lend a hand, gas $ and beer will be involved. Thanks in advance.
    Nik


  2. #2

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    UPDATE:
    ok, this has got me stumped. I have done just about everything I can think of without digital wrench. TPS has been upgraded. Crank sensor has been checked. Getting good spark. Injectors are firing. Stator is good. Compression is 125 across. Fuel pressure jumps to 20+ upon cranking. Every so often (3 times now) there is on HUGE backfire. More like an "explosion". One of them blew the exhaust hose completely off of the muffler. Who needs M-80's for the 4th of July. I'll just try to start my ski a couple of times. I mean it is so violent, my tools jump out of the footwels and land in the engin compartment. Now this thing has me somewhat scared!! It acts like timing is off, but I checked the flywheel at TDC on the mag and I can see the three triggers through the CPS hole. I suppose it could be off but I am pulling my hair out. Could it be the EMM? I have found an outfit that rebuilds them for $5xx and attaches a 1 year/100hr warranty. Any help or thoughts out there? How do I get Digital Wrench?

  3. #3
    Rocky_Road's Avatar
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    Sorry to report that the DigitalWrench is Polaris proprietary...and they are not making it available to anyone but dealers! Even though many of the dealers are not willing to work on the PWCs, Polaris says that the DigitalWrench software covers all of their products (ATV, motorcycle, etc.), and for this reason, will not be available. The dealers, however, will usually readout the PWC trouble codes for you....

    Just as soon as K447 sees your post, you can bet that you will be getting some help!

  4. #4

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    Update.
    Well crap!!! After further investigation, those backfires were so severe, they blew out the plastic silencers. I think it only got the one behind the battery. Shattered the foam, etc.. Are these expensive or is there some kind of aftermarket kit that eliminates them? I think I am going to physically verify the flywheel ke is intact and make sure I haven't lost any magnets on the flywheel. Still looking for help out there

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Hulk!

    You may be able to get replacement exhaust parts from one of the guys who parts out Polaris PWC, I would think. You can check the Polaris parts cross reference to see what other years and models had the same exhaust parts.

    Worry about fixing the exhaust after you get the engine to start and run, for a few seconds, at least.

    Have you checked all the stator coils for ohm readings, per the 2002 Service Manual?

    You can check from the connectors on the EMM. Many of the readings are very low ohm values, so be sure you have solid contacts. Also confirm none of the stator coils are shorted to ground or high impedance leaking to ground.

    Check the ignition coil ohms too.

    If you can find someone with a good EMM, or a running Ficht machine nearby, perhaps you can swap the EMM for a test. The EMM is flow matched to the injectors, but for your starting tests, that won't matter.

    Have you checked crank index for all three cylinders?

    Obviously you are getting raw fuel into the exhaust system, which is then getting ignited by a successful cylinder firing.

    The Ficht system works by injecting the fuel after the rising piston has covered all the ports, and then fires the ignition at the appropriate position of the flywheel. To backfire the way you have described, you are getting a lot of unburned fuel accumulating in the exhaust. So the injectors are pumping at least some fuel.

    During cranking, I suspect the EMM supplies excess fuel and times the spark for after TDC, to maximize the success of the start. Have you checked that the ignition and injector feed wires are in fact hooked up to the correct coils and injectors - nothing swapped between cylinders?

    My Ficht machines generally start within a couple of seconds, almost every time.

    You have checked the CPS for correct resistance?

    Have you confirmed proper voltage on the Red/White supply to the injectors? Should be 20+ volts DC during cranking.

    There is a big capacitor (mounted near the EMM?) that is supposed to even out the injector voltage feed. When you stop cranking, it should glide down in volts, not drop suddenly to zero.

    Try unplugging one injector at a time, and cranking. I have seen a few reports of having one injector disconnected allowing the engine to start.

    How about a few photos of the engine top and wiring - we might spot something.

    When you have the EMM connectors unplugged, look for any signs of corrosion.

    BTW, be sure to keep that battery well charged. You can be lead to incorrect conclusions if it gets weak while you are trying to figure things out.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by K447 View Post
    Welcome to the Hulk!

    You may be able to get replacement exhaust parts from one of the guys who parts out Polaris PWC, I would think. You can check the Polaris parts cross reference to see what other years and models had the same exhaust parts.

    Worry about fixing the exhaust after you get the engine to start and run, for a few seconds, at least. Ok parts are available. The RH resonator is shredded. How the heck do you get these out? Is it possible??

    Have you checked all the stator coils for ohm readings, per the 2002 Service Manual? I checked them per the 03 SM. Did not check short to ground though. A few of my readings are a little high, maybe .1, but I attribute that to my meter.

    You can check from the connectors on the EMM. Many of the readings are very low ohm values, so be sure you have solid contacts. Also confirm none of the stator coils are shorted to ground or high impedance leaking to ground.

    Check the ignition coil ohms too. havent done this yet

    If you can find someone with a good EMM, or a running Ficht machine nearby, perhaps you can swap the EMM for a test. The EMM is flow matched to the injectors, but for your starting tests, that won't matter.

    Have you checked crank index for all three cylinders? no

    Obviously you are getting raw fuel into the exhaust system, which is then getting ignited by a successful cylinder firing.

    The Ficht system works by injecting the fuel after the rising piston has covered all the ports, and then fires the ignition at the appropriate position of the flywheel. To backfire the way you have described, you are getting a lot of unburned fuel accumulating in the exhaust. So the injectors are pumping at least some fuel.

    During cranking, I suspect the EMM supplies excess fuel and times the spark for after TDC, to maximize the success of the start. Have you checked that the ignition and injector feed wires are in fact hooked up to the correct coils and injectors - nothing swapped between cylinders? looks idiot proof in terms of length of wire. I will double check.

    My Ficht machines generally start within a couple of seconds, almost every time.

    You have checked the CPS for correct resistance? yes this is good under 200 ohms

    Have you confirmed proper voltage on the Red/White supply to the injectors? Should be 20+ volts DC during cranking. Yes, goes to about 20-21v while cranking. very low beforehand which I think is ok

    There is a big capacitor (mounted near the EMM?) that is supposed to even out the injector voltage feed. When you stop cranking, it should glide down in volts, not drop suddenly to zero. I need to check this still

    Try unplugging one injector at a time, and cranking. I have seen a few reports of having one injector disconnected allowing the engine to start. I'm scared to crank it now. It almost took my head off!!

    How about a few photos of the engine top and wiring - we might spot something.

    When you have the EMM connectors unplugged, look for any signs of corrosion. none

    BTW, be sure to keep that battery well charged. You can be lead to incorrect conclusions if it gets weak while you are trying to figure things out.

    I'm getting frazzled. Especially that DW is not avail to the general public. I could probably fix this in an afternoon or at least isolate the problem. Anyone wanna let me borrow their diag set-up? Fat chance I'm sure. Or is anyone local to the DFW area. Hate taking my machines to a dealer. One down here is a total craphole!!

  7. #7
    Rocky_Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiJunkie View Post
    I'm getting frazzled. Especially that DW is not avail to the general public. I could probably fix this in an afternoon or at least isolate the problem. Anyone wanna let me borrow their diag set-up? Fat chance I'm sure. Or is anyone local to the DFW area. Hate taking my machines to a dealer. One down here is a total craphole!!
    Then that craphole has a brother...runs the dealership, here in Tallahassee!

    I pay Brother Craphole his 30 pieces of silver for one hours worth of time...to get the codes. Then I use this great site, and the service manual, to figure out what to do next! If I need parts, I contact Jay, or Randy, from this site....

  8. #8

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    Unhappy

    UPDATE:
    Ok I did some more research with the dealer that initially said the EMM was bad. According to them, they sent the EMM out to DFI Technologies. They cam to the conclusion that it was bad and not repairable. I have not talked with DFI directly yet. So I called a reputable dealer here in the Dallas area and started shooting the bull with him. He thought he had a repaired EMM in stock, but it had already been sold, but he can get new ones still, at $1200 bucks! HOLY CRAP!!!! Of courst that is not including the 2 hours labor to program it to the ski! I also mentioned the resonator issue, and he said bypass it. It will be louder, but wont affect the ski. He is researching to see if there is a kit to do that or how people do it, and will get back to me. So it looks like I am due for a new EMM. Anyone got a "spare" laying around the house? Also, what might have caused this? Could something else be tagging the EMM and causing it to fry? What is the trend. I am really hesitant to drop the cash for fear of something else hitting the new one?
    Nik

  9. #9
    ph2ocraft's Avatar
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    Nik, They will fail on occassion. I can't tell you what's wrong with your ride but I can tell you I have a brand new EMM with injectors that I'd be willing to sell for a grand. No programming needed but you need to send me your old EMM and injectors.

  10. #10

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    Pm at ya

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