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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Orange County, NY
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    650 Loading Up With Fuel

    I just picked up a 1990 650 Waverunner LX last week. On the first trip to the lake it was having a hard time cranking. I figured it was the battery so I used my "jump box" and reluctantly it cranked then finally started. I wasn't comfortable going out on the lake since it appeared the battery was on its way out so I put it back on the trailer and went home. I picked up a new battery yesterday, filled it, slow charged it overnight, and put it in today. It was still cranking very slowly, almost like the engine was getting hydrolocked. I pulled the plugs and cranked it for a few seconds, it spun over quickly as it should, then a lot of fuel came flying out of both plug holes. It was enough to spray all over the back of the ski as well as the other one next to it. I put the plugs back in and it cranked properly for a second but it seems to be loaded up again although it didn't spray the enormous amount of fuel out the plug holes when I pulled them out this time. When I picked it up from the previous owner it started right up on the trailer and ran like a dream. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what may be causing this loading up issue? I checked the two hoses that appear to be vents on the fuel tank thinking that pressure building up in the tank while the ski sits in the sun may be pushing fuel into the engine. The one on the port side of the ski has a check valve and goes to the front of the skit, it allows air in but not out as it seems it should. The one near the rear of the tank is hooked to the carb and doesn't let air in or out. Is that one just a place for the overflow of the carb to dump if it needs to? Any help would be really appreciated. We're going on vacation the end of the month and I've got two dead ski's on the trailer. Once I fix this Yamaha I'll move on to the Polaris.

    John


  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Orange County, NY
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    131
    OK. I figured out that the fuel line from the back of the tank to the carb is the fuel return from the pump. I'm getting to think that either the starter is no good or the cable end at the starter isn't too great. In order to get at the starter or the connection on that end, it looks like I need to pull the exhaust off. Once I hook up my jump box it spins like mad now. Could the Wally Mart battery just be that big of a POS? Could the starter relay be on its way out and losing a bunch of current on the way to the starter?

    I've looked around and not had any luck finding an online manual for this machine. Can anyone point me to one?

    Thanks!

    John

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Orange County, NY
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    I think I got it straightened out by giving the new battery a thorough overnight slow charge but if anyone has any input I'd love to hear it.

    John

  4. #4
    ....back from the dead.... J-ME's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
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    Delaware
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    Sounds like the battery was a good first step. Make sure the carb isn't dribbling when it is idleing. This could indicate a worn needle and seat and would account for all of the fuel you were seeing.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Orange County, NY
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    131
    I kind of did that the other day but I didn't give it a real good look. I've got to replace the 4 hold downs for the SA since the previous owner hacked the heck out of the ones in there. I re-tapped all the holes to match the one stock screw that was left and I need to get to the hardware store to pick up four new screws. I'll have another look in there while the SA cover is off.

    John

  6. #6
    96yam701's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
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    Key West
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    quick post,

    http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9546

    is the service manuals

    the way my yamaha starter relay died is as follows.
    while adjusting the low idle setting, i was starting and stopping the vessel many times and i thought the battery was dieing because the engine cranking was slow then slower then just barely turning over then full stop, until all i heard was the relay clicking...

    obviously i thought i could hear the click it must be fine. so i charged the battery to no avail. i disassembled the starter and rebuilt that with a little gain in performance. AH HA must be the motor so i put in a brand new starter motor NOTHING! only after i ohm tested the relay did i realize what was happening. i hot wired the starter to the battery and it started like it had a new battery!

    moral of the story buy a 10 dollar tester it will save you a week of head aches.
    Last edited by 96yam701; 08-13-2008 at 09:37 PM.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, NY
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    131
    Definitely, I was an auto tech at a couple of dealers for 10 years so I know my way around an electrical system and have all the diagnostic equipment to test it. However, I was hoping to get a manual online to look at but it appears that all the ones in the link are for newer machines. I have a PM in to JUST-IN-TIME and hopefully he'll send over one for me. I'm going to have a look at that relay anyway and do a quick ohm test as well as check for a voltage drop across the relay if it acts up again. I'm guessing I can just take the box off the side of the engine compartment, open it up, and test the relay? Sorry for my ignorance but getting this deep into a PWC is new to me.

    Thanks.

    John

  8. #8
    96yam701's Avatar
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    excatly, there should be two large battery cables and then 2 smaller wires. the ohms are going to be across the larger battery cable wires. but you might also check the amps and ohms across the smaller wires.

    basic operation is that your starter button passes electricity across some coils (smaller wires) causeing an electro-magnetic pulling a large switch into place causeing a direct feed from the battery into the starter (larger wires).

    if either the switch or coils fail then the relay needs to be replaced. low voltage/amps across the coils should still start the motor as long as the switch is able to make contact, but anything out of factory spec will eventually cause a failure


    EDIT:
    i was looking around for the manual online i saw it was for sale on ebay for 5 bucks but i know those guys will just be reselling something that should be available for free.

    http://jmfiskin.com/manuals/manuals/...b%20Manual.zip

    is the mikuni carb manual, i believe that is what is on that ski. the riva shop says the part number for a 650 waverunner III LX matches the part number for the 96 wave raider 701... might still do a common sense check.
    Last edited by 96yam701; 08-13-2008 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #9
    jdog800's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    Alexandria L.A.
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    812
    those situations sound like corrosive terminals to me. A good scrubing with a wire brush and you prob could have saved yourself some money. The starter relay is simply an 12v electromagnet that sucks a big metal plate between the 2 terminals. The clicking sound is that magnet engaging, and since this is all contained inside a waterproof housing it rarely gets corroded. Were the contact is bad is the cable side of this equation. I have made more money by tighting up loose battery cables and ground straps than any other repair I do.
    So many people want to overlook the hard to reach ground strap that runs under the motor, and the terminal on the starter.
    Naturaly these wires take the most abuse from the bouncing up and down off the waves, which in time works the nuts loose and electrolisis sets in.
    If the relay clicks(99.9%) its good.
    Because its a DC electric current the ground is just as important to making the starter work as the hot legs.
    Last edited by jdog800; 08-14-2008 at 07:03 PM.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Orange County, NY
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    I don't feel I've wasted any money. I bought a battery which it needed anyway and that's all I've done. It seems to be working pretty well now and if the problem resurfaces I will look over the connections that I can get to without tearing stuff apart but from what I can see a bit of disassembly is required to even get a good look at the terminal on the starter. If I find a high resistance across the solenoid or better yet, a voltage drop under load, then I know that the culprit lies there. Thanks for the info guys, I'll update when I get some seat time this weekend.

    John

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