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  1. #1

    common problem with starting??

    Several Ficht units I have seen/worked (1200 and 800) on have the same problem with starting. Push the start button and they fire up but quit as soon as you let of the button. Will stay running as long as you hold the start button down. May take 5-6 tries before it will stay running on its own. Seems to be a common problem and more of a pain. Before people start asking fuel pressure good (new fuel pump), new ECM. Just curious if anyone has persued this at all??


  2. #2
    Moderator beerdart's Avatar
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    Check the Start/Stop cutoff switch located in the e-box.

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewraffe View Post
    Several Ficht units I have seen/worked (1200 and 800) on have the same problem with starting. Push the start button and they fire up but quit as soon as you let of the button. Will stay running as long as you hold the start button down. May take 5-6 tries before it will stay running on its own. Seems to be a common problem...
    Do these machines all have a single button for Start and Stop, not a separate Start button?

    When there is a single button for starting and stopping the engine, then the Start/Stop module may be the problem.

    LR-503-1 (Start/Stop regulator)
    Ficht engines (2002-2004 Virage i, Virage TXi, Genesis i)
    (4010906 [OEM for the 2004 models] supersedes 4010724, which can fail over time)

    4010346 2000-2001 Ficht models (spade connectors, inside electrical box)

    4010263 - 1999 Genesis Ficht Start/Stop cut-off (inside electrical box)

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewraffe View Post
    Several Ficht units I have seen/worked (1200 and 800) on have the same problem with starting.

    Push the start button and they fire up but quit as soon as you let of the button.

    Will stay running as long as you hold the start button down. ..Seems to be a common problem and more of a pain...
    Apparently there was a 'diode fix' kit from Polaris. I don't know the part number, nor the Service Bulletin number.

    My understanding is that there is a voltage spike in the system when the Start button is released, and this spike causes the EMM to shut the engine down.

    It is not clear to me whether this problem/fix affects both CDI (carburetor) and Ficht (fuel injected) engines.

    This may or may not be related to the internal voltage spike suppression diode that the newer design starter solenoids have. These are the brown body solenoids that replace the failure prone black external solenoids.

  5. #5
    I am at the point of throwing parts at mine to fix this exact problem. I have the 800 fict. What do you suggest I ask for first? I had the ski totally checked out last October. Computer check said everything was perfect and the mechanic said the ski and engine were in perfect shape. Except it wont start without a ton of attempts. Where is the solonid you mention located at?

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbetzelb View Post
    I am at the point of throwing parts at mine to fix this exact problem. I have the 800 fict. What do you suggest I ask for first? I had the ski totally checked out last October. Computer check said everything was perfect and the mechanic said the ski and engine were in perfect shape. Except it wont start without a ton of attempts.

    Where is the solenoid you mention located at?
    Welcome to the hulk

    It works best to start a separate thread for your particular machine and issue, rather than tacking it on to a different ski's thread. Reduces confusion
    A moderator may move this to a new thread.

    Describe more completely the symptoms you are having, and what you have done (or had done) in an attempt to solve the problem.

    When cranking, does it just crank and crank, with zero or nearly zero evidence of ignition?

    Or does it crank, start actually running, then stop running as soon as you let go of the start button?

    Does it have the problem even when starting on the trailer, out of the water?

    What is the battery voltage (measured with a multi-meter), while the engine is cranking?

    Once it starts, does it run properly?
    Full power, RPM above 6500, and full speed in the water?

    Have you seen the info available at
    Polaris Ficht Fuel Injected Engines

    If I had to guess, I would suspect that you don't have proper DC voltage from the EMM to power the injectors.

    This could be caused by a weak battery. If the battery is healthy, then measure the DC voltage on the White/Red wires to the injectors.

    Do NOT unplug the wires from the injectors, find a splice location to tap into the White/Red wires.

    What voltage are you seeing while cranking?

    Should be over 20 volts while cranking, then jump to 40-45 volts when engine starts.

    A simple test for weak Ficht injector voltage is to prime the throttle body air intakes with a little fuel (remove the flame arrestor, but be careful with fuel and fumes), then try starting. If you have spark, it will fire up.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the reply. I snuck in on this post because I have the exact issue the original post states. Same on the water or off. Ski is a 2002 Polaris Virage I 800. I should note that this thing has never started good but lately it has been worse and I am afraid it won’t start. It will fire and act like it is running as long as I hold the starter button. I took the ski to the “best polaris mechanic around” (multiple people threw this persons name in the town where Polaris watercraft were once made). He put it on the computer and it came back with everything in perfect spec. He gave me some detail on the computer info but I don’t remember. He said he cleaned the cam position sensor. Said that was a common issue on these. He replaced the plugs. Said he checked the intake and it was clean. Said voltage to the injectors was good and fuel delivery was perfect. My battery is new and was full charged. It cranks it over fast and strong. I have found you can get it started by removing the air cleaner. Engine will start and stay running with a little effort once I pull the air cleaner. No fuel priming involved. Pull the air cleaner work the starter button for about 20 seconds, let off the starter and it stays running. Yes the 20 seconds is engine running and starter running like the original discussion. Put the air cleaner back on and it stays running. Yes the air filter is clean. This ski runs perfect once you get it started. Smooth at all RPM’s, good even power through the whole band and a solid top speed. Mechanic put some sea foam in it and told me to go run it for 2 hours non-stop and see how it does. I picked it up from him, took it to the lake and couldn’t get it to run without pulling the air cleaner. Pulled the air cleaner, fired it up and ran it 20 to 40 miles per hour for two hours. Pulled up to the doc and shut it off while I went to get the truck and trailer backed up. Got on it and it started on it’s own (after about 10 attempts). I drove it on the trailer. I then winterized it and put it away. I can’t mess with it for a couple more months. I will take my own volt measurement as you described once I grab it from storage. I will take a peek at that site you listed.

  8. #8
    I would wager that the start/stop module is a simple relay that should stay engaged when the engine is running. Either the signal wire to the relay (ignition wire maybe?) isn't sending consistent voltage or the relay itself is not functioning properly. My money would be on the later.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow LR-503 module controls Start/Stop engine function on Virage i and Virage TXi models

    Quote Originally Posted by jbetzelb View Post
    ...I then winterized it and put it away. I can’t mess with it for a couple more months.

    I will take my own volt measurement as you described once I grab it from storage.

    I will take a peek at that site you listed.
    When do you expect to be working on it next?

    What model year is your Virage i?
    2002, 2003, or 2004?

    Click here to update your Profile

    The two cylinder Virage i models have an LR-503-x Start/Stop regulator, similar to the LR modules on the carburetor engines. It is located in the electrical box (1999-2001) or tied into the wire harness (2002-2004).

    The 4010724 version of the LR-503 module was used in 2002 and 2003. It was updated to the LR-503-4 (PN 4010906) for 2004.

    One of the functions of the LR-503 is to decide whether to start or stop the engine when the Start/Stop button is pressed. It does this by monitoring the Yellow wire for RPM signal.

    Normally, when you press the Start/Stop button, and the Yellow wire does not have an RPM signal (meaning the engine is not rotating), then the LR-503 allows the start solenoid to activate, and the engine cranks and starts.

    If you press the Start/Stop button, and the LR-503 module does see an active RPM signal on the Yellow wire, it decides the engine must already be running, and therefore does not activate the start solenoid. Instead, it kills the ignition, and shuts the engine down.

    If the LR-503 module becomes defective, it may decide to shut the engine down even though you are trying to start it!

    Here is a test you can try;

    Note: This bypass method applies to 2002-2004 Start/Stop modules which have a single connector.
    1999-2001 Start/Stop modules have spade connectors on individual wires, and the bypass is outlined over here.
    Step 1)
    Unplug the LR-503 module.
    This will prevent the Start/Stop button from stopping the engine.

    The lanyard safety switch will still be able to stop the engine, so use the lanyard to kill the engine if it starts.

    Step 2)
    Crank the engine, see if it starts promptly.
    You can do this two different ways;

    A) If you short the two heavy terminals (with the two heavy red wires bolted on) on the start solenoid together, the starter motor will crank the engine.

    Peel back the two red covers, and use a short screwdriver blade to short between the two terminals. The engine should crank and should start, if the safety lanyard is in place.

    Be aware that there will be sparking when you short those two posts together on the solenoid, so use a firm hand, and do not allow the tool to touch anything else.

    Make sure there are no gasoline fumes inside the hull.

    OR

    B) Find a short length of thin solid copper wire to jumper between the Black (pin D) and Black/White (pin A) wires on the wire harness connector from which you removed the LR-503.

    The LR-503 itself remains unconnected for this test.

    Be careful to not connect to or between any other pins in the connector, to avoid blowing fuses or other problems.

    If you have one handy, you can use an electronic test jumper wire, with small insulated alligator clips at each end.

    This will enable the Start button to crank and start the engine. Use the lanyard to stop the engine.

    Do not use the Start/Stop button to stop the engine, as it cannot do so without a working LR-503 module.


    If the engine starts and runs with the LR-503 module removed, and stops using the lanyard, then the LR-503 module should be replaced.

    As far as I know, the best replacement would the LR-503-4 (Polaris part number 4010906).

    Parts Pit Stop sells it new for $75
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    Last edited by K447; 05-25-2011 at 10:34 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbetzelb View Post
    ...Ski is a 2002 Polaris Virage I 800.

    I should note that this thing has never started good but lately it has been worse and I am afraid it won’t start.

    It will fire and act like it is running as long as I hold the starter button. I took the ski to the “best Polaris mechanic around” ... He put it on the computer and it came back with everything in perfect spec.

    ...He said he cleaned the cam position sensor. Said that was a common issue on these.

    ... Said voltage to the injectors was good and fuel delivery was perfect. My battery is new and was full charged. It cranks it over fast and strong.

    I have found you can get it started by removing the air cleaner. Engine will start and stay running with a little effort once I pull the air cleaner. No fuel priming involved.

    Pull the air cleaner work the starter button for about 20 seconds, let off the starter and it stays running.

    Yes the 20 seconds is engine running and starter running like the original discussion. Put the air cleaner back on and it stays running.

    ...ski runs perfect once you get it started. Smooth at all RPM’s, good even power through the whole band and a solid top speed...
    If the CPS (Crank Position Sensor) had junk cleaned from it, I would be wondering what the stuff was, and where it came from.

    The CPS is a simple magnetic coil sensor, triggered by bumps on the flywheel edge. Top item in this photo.

    Sometimes the magnets inside the flywheels on these engines have been know to become loose. They get damaged and chewed up, and magnetic debris gets spewed around inside the flywheel housing.

    The CPS sensor is mounted right above the flywheel in the top of the housing, so it can be damaged. It is held in place by only one bolt from the outside, and is visible from above the engine.

    If your flywheel has damaged magnets, then the flywheel needs to be removed and replaced with a good one.

    CPS is part number 2410128
    Price is about $67 from Parts Pit Stop.

    Your original flywheel has six magnets. If it needs replacing, you can install another six magnet flywheel, or the improved 12 magnet version (which was standard on the MSX 140 engine).

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