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  1. #1
    tomgtv's Avatar
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    National ID Card - Good or Bad?

    John McCain tacked a National ID bill onto a military spending bill not
    too long ago. Do you think this is a good idea??
    Some opinions:

    Go to this link first
    http://aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf



  2. #2
    YoYamma's Avatar
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    I tried to go to the ACLU link you provided,
    but my computer's B.S. filter blocked the page...

    I think McCain is simply following the suggestion of the 9/11 commission, it's right there in your video, look at it again. We have all heard the ACLU bitching and moaning about the terrible things we are doing to fight terrorism---the Patriot Act, ID programs, etc.---but what do you expect from the ACLU, their founder stated the goal of the organization is communisim for the U.S.!

    Are there risks with this stuff, sure. But let's face it---the Bush administration hasn't damaged any freedoms except the those of the terrorists who want to blow up America. That's why the ACLU hates him so much---they have been plotting to destroy America for years, you can read about that right here:
    http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/...lawyers-union/

    Despite the denial of the left, terrorists are still out there. Just last year we learned of their plot to blow up John F. Kennedy International Airport, its fuel tanks and an entire jet fuel artery which could have crippled our economy, and already we have seen Islamic terrorist cells in Buffalo, Portland, Detroit, and Seattle that have been exposed and broken up, and many millions of dollars in assets destined to finance terrorist activities have been frozen or forfeited thanks to the Patriot Act, you can read more about that here:
    http://www.discovery.org/a/2153
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20050609.html
    Last edited by YoYamma; 09-09-2008 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #3

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    i think its a bad idea.

    but when you think about it maybe its not. most places where you have to show government idea you already need to show some forum of government idea. when you go to the airport you have to show a passport or drivers license now. when you go into a government building at least the two i have been in you are required to show a driver license. and when you go into a open a bank account you are required to give your social security number. so im most places you already have to prove your identity with a government issue idea which your social security number is nothing more then another forum of government identification.


    how ever i couldn't bring my self to support it. these types of things seem to lead you to slippery slops and i can only imagine where it might lead us.

  4. #4

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    There comes a point when any government can become more dangerous to its people than a perceived outside threat. To you and I, maybe we haven't hit that point yet, but that is the direction we're heading. I can tell you, for the good people it has already affected, they believe that point has passed. There is an absolute overload of instances of our government, on many levels, engaging in terrorism, that the American public can not even digest it anymore. When, for example, the History Channel reported that the anthax used in the attacks was a specific strain produced and maintained by the Pentagon, the American people don't even know what to do with that information. Luckily for our government, one Pentagon scientist "commits suicide", so it's case closed on that. After it was unclassified that our government killed our own people and lied about it to enter the Vietnam War in the Gulf of Tonkin incident... no one cares.


    There is a poem called "First They Came...", written by a German pastor about the inactivity of German intellectuals during the Nazi rise to power. It is as relevant today as today in American, as much as any point in history:
    When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.
    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.
    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasn't a Jew.
    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.
    Eventually, with the National ID, and the wonderful technology that follows it, I would simply be erased like I never existed, for saying such things. I'm pretty much against the National ID... in the name of humanity.

  5. #5
    amharms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoYamma View Post
    Are there risks with this stuff, sure. But let's face it---the Bush administration hasn't damaged any freedoms except the those of the terrorists who want to blow up America.
    What?! Illegal wiretaps? Inaccurate "no-fly" lists that inconvenience all sorts of people? We've been moving towards a "papers please" government ever since 9/11.

    IMO, the proper response to 9/11 would have been to bury our dead, rebuild WTC bigger and better, and say nothing else about it. Basically give the mass murderers (don't give them any sort of legitimacy by calling them "terrorists") the proverbial finger. By reacting the way we did, we let them win.

    All politics aside, National ID is just pork. It'll cost a lot of money, and make no real difference. Bad idea.

  6. #6
    Bob 1tommygunner1927's Avatar
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    Hey gents.....there's already a National ID card: It's your Social Security Card. Just add a photo.

  7. #7
    YoYamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amharms View Post
    What?! Illegal wiretaps? Inaccurate "no-fly" lists that inconvenience all sorts of people? We've been moving towards a "papers please" government ever since 9/11.
    I don't like too much government control either bro, but please tell me how any of this has inconvenienced Americans more than having another half-trillon dollars---that's 5 points off your GDP---instantly sucked out of our economy with another large scale attack on our soil. When was the last time one of us has been a target of an "illegal wiretap." Come on...

    IMO, the proper response to 9/11 would have been to bury our dead, rebuild WTC bigger and better, and say nothing else about it.
    Oh geez, you can't be serious. Really?

    I'm sure many of the terrorists would agree with you.
    Then they would come back and hit the White House even quicker, don't forget---they missed it the first time!

  8. #8
    amharms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoYamma View Post
    I don't like too much government control either bro, but please tell me how any of this has inconvenienced Americans more than having another half-trillon dollars---that's 5 points off your GDP---instantly sucked out of our economy with another large scale attack on our soil. When was the last time one of us has been a target of an "illegal wiretap." Come on...

    Oh geez, you can't be serious. Really?

    I'm sure many of the terrorists would agree with you.
    Then they would come back and hit the White House even quicker, don't forget---they missed it the first time!
    Regardless of whether or not they've actually caused inconvenience, many of the laws that were passed in the wake of 9/11 are, IMO, very close to or over the line of constitutionality. It's been used as an excuse to pass laws like PATRIOT that really had no business seeing the light of day.

    Maybe I should have said "do nothing more than we were already." It's not like we didn't have a national security apparatus before. We'll never catch or prevent ALL such events, and trying to do so is the proverbial road to Hell paved with good intentions. Security and freedom are two ends of a continuum, and I'd rather have the freedom! Unfortunately, it's never free.

    I'll also grant that there's a difference when it's state sponsored, since that would be an act of war by the sponsoring state. But in that case, the response shouldn't be to pass a bunch of domestic laws.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by 1tommygunner1927 View Post
    Hey gents.....there's already a National ID card: It's your Social Security Card. Just add a photo.
    BINGO

    but soon you won't be able to buy or sell without the national id card

  10. #10
    YoYamma's Avatar
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    Regardless of whether or not they've actually caused inconvenience, many of the laws that were passed in the wake of 9/11 are, IMO, very close to or over the line of constitutionality. It's been used as an excuse to pass laws like PATRIOT that really had no business seeing the light of day.
    I hear you bro, but I think we needed new laws to fight an unseen enemy.
    Go back and look at my first post here, read those links---the Patriot Act is working. Before Patriot, we had a confused bunch of bureaucracies that weren't even communicating with each other, much less fighting terror plots.
    Everyone saw this, including our enemies.

    That's why the USA P.A. was passed by wide margins in both houses of Congress and was supported by members of both the Republican and Democratic parties.

    My question remains---when was the last time one of us has been a target of an "illegal wiretap." Has anyone here been damaged by the Patriot Act?

    Sometimes we need new laws... not long ago, security screening was a hodgepodge at best---largely the responsibility of various airports, and there were no standards to protect cockpits from intrusion and small arms fire or fragmentation devices, such as grenades, the list goes on...

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