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Thread: MSX problem

  1. #1

    MSX problem

    My MSX 150 will not go over 5400 rpm. One person or two that is as high it will go. No lights, starts and runs find up to 5400 rpm. Coming out of the hole it goes straight to 5400 and that is it. It is like the throttler will only open open half way even though the cable will move all the way.

    Any ideas? I am in Tuscaloosa Alabama and I don't think the Polaris dealer has worked much on the MSX, might have to take it to Birmingham to find a technician. The ski has 245 hours and has never had a problem, except for the engine light coming on about once every three trips out. I turn it off and wait one minute and start it back up and the problem is gone. My baffle moved and now the dip stick hits it when I screw it in but I figure that is holding the baffle in place. It has been that way for over two years but I guess that could still be the problem.

    Thanks for any help you can give me.

    Lennie


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Do a search on the Polaris forums here for waste gate, and oil contamination.

    If you have not been servicing (lubricating) the waste gate shaft, it is probably sticky, or stuck.

    There is also a recent thread regarding the oil reservoir baffle coming loose, and the problems that foamed oil can cause with oil contamination of the sensors in the air intake tract.

    Are you aware of a related issue, that the markings on the oil dipstick are misleading, and you should not be filling the oil to the 'full' mark?

    There is an MSX section, and some more notes regarding the Weber engined MSX110 and MSX 150 models.

  3. #3

    What I found

    I keep the waste gate shaft lubricated and it is not sticking at all.

    I pulled the top sensor out of the throttle body tube and it was dry as a bone. So was the tube. I know about oil problems and never put too much oil in it.

    So I am stumped.

    Lennie

  4. #4
    Rocky_Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LennieT View Post
    I keep the waste gate shaft lubricated and it is not sticking at all.

    I pulled the top sensor out of the throttle body tube and it was dry as a bone. So was the tube. I know about oil problems and never put too much oil in it.

    So I am stumped.

    Lennie
    Hmmm....

    Back to the beginning...are you restricted in rpm's all the time? But, you only get a trouble light every so often?

    When you get the trouble light, is there the hi temp symbol also? Do you loose any rpm's the times that the trouble light comes on?

    You say that the wastegate lever moves freely...but are you sure that it is adjusted for max boost?

    Lastly...what color is your boost valve, and is it attached to a stainless steel bracket on the head?

  5. #5

    Answers to your questions

    are you restricted in rpm's all the time?

    Yes, but it is more like it is just as fast as the engine will go rather than a restriction. Actually with two of us it will only go 5350 with just me it will got 5550, so I am guessing that is not a computer restriction. Feels like I just don't have full turbo and therefore that is as fast as the little weber can turn the shaft.

    When you get the trouble light, is there the hi temp symbol also? Do you loose any rpm's the times that the trouble light comes on?

    All it says is check engine and it is limited to 4500 rpm. But this only occurs after I idle out from the boat house, it takes like 6 minutes at idle speed to clear the no wake zone and then I open her wide open to take off and the light comes on and I am limited. So, after idling for that long I just start off slowly the first time and all is fine. Actually, it does not happen every time but I still start off slowly after long idles. Once you get going you can stop and hit it to go with no problem.

    You say that the wastegate lever moves freely...but are you sure that it is adjusted for max boost?

    Until last week she would turn 7400 rpm with two of us with no problem. I did not do that much unless running from lighting. But I figure the boost must have been up there pretty good to get it to 7400 rpm with 350 lbs on its back.

    Lastly...what color is your boost valve, and is it attached to a stainless steel bracket on the head?

    Is that the round thing that is connected to the waste gate arm? It looks like a vacuum thing, even has a little rubber hose connected to it. If that is what you are talking about it is black and the bracket it also black (I am doing this from memory and I am almost sure it is black not stainless steel). Looks like it was all painted black after the engine was put together cause even the screws look like they were painted black. I have wondered about that thing, because the waste gate arm moves freely but it appears to be spring loaded and on mine the spring is stout. But movement is smooth and no binding or anything. What does that little round thing do, I can't imagine it pulling the waste gate arm but I guess it could.

    Thanks for worrying with this.

    Lennie

  6. #6

    One more thing

    Since this 5400 to 5550 max rpm started, there have been no warning lights. You can't hit it hard enough to make the warning light that I get after a long idle come on. To have the light come on after you idle for five minutes or so you have to see 6500 rpm or more coming out of the hole and the most you see now coming out of the hole is maybe 5300 till you plain out and then it goes up a little more. That is the way I take off the first time after idle anyway to keep the warning light from coming on so I don't think I will see the warning light until it is fixed. It is really like a 750 cc engine with a little bit of turbo. The engine just can't rev like it use to, you can feel it, she just does not have any punch. Very smooth, gets out of the hole and runs but just no punch.

    Lennie

  7. #7
    Rocky Road, you got him on the right track!

    What we mean by color of the small unit on the head it the Wastegate solenoid. Polaris had an update for this a few years back. From the factory the wastegate solenoid is black and pretty sure, if my memory holds true, on the turbo/exhaust side of the engine. The new updated solenoid is grey and mounts to the head, red plastic piece on the top of the engine, by a stainless bracket. Now this may not be the complete source of the problem, but it is a start. What this unit does is once a certain pressure is felt in this sensor it gets a signal to open, in turn putting pressure on the wastegate actuator and lets the wastegate arm do the rest.

    Another problem i have seen time and time again is oil contamination. Now i read that you pulled the boost sensor and saw no oil. Remove the hose from the intercooler to turbo and check there, that is where the oil will hit first. What usually happens is the oil get stuck in the intercooler fins and does not make it to the ETB and manifold. So..check that and if there is any oil at all remove the intercooler, my money lyes there. What happens here is this, when oil gets on the fins the air has less place to go through due to the blockage, espically under boost. Get the intercooler out (it is a pain in the ass) and disassemble using a 3/8" chisel carefully go around the cooling manifold (remove the cover first) and pull out the fin assembly, chances are you will find oil! Clean very good, add new silicone and reinstall the fin asm and cooling manifold.

    check your oil level after 30 seconds of runing and verify it is at the low mark on the dipstick.

    And while you are at it make sure sure you are getting fully movement from the ETB(electronic throttle body) these have been known to shit the bed along with the 2 TPS sensor and 2 PPU sensors......too many sensors on this boat gezz.

    If your oil baffle is loose you have to repair it! Mark and remove lines (remove all oil first, like you were doing an oil change) and remove the expansion tank. Carefully remove the CV clamp if your good you can use it again. With a heat gun heat around the top plastic section where the cast head meets the plastic tank and once heated, pop it apart. Now thourghly clean the tank. You will see the tabs that hold the baffle in, reinstall the baffle with the tabs facing up and the triangle splash gaurd down and put 5 min epoxy over all the tabs to ensure it will not happen again! Let dry and reassemble. Add fresh oil and filter and away you go.


    Let me no how it goes,
    Matt

  8. #8
    Rocky_Road's Avatar
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    Hi Matt!

    Not sure if he is still coming here...but if he has the updated boost control, then I would start leaning to the ETB. There are two built in sensors within the ETB...and they have to agree. Mine didn't...and I was having the same restricted RPM's, with a trouble light, until I changed the unit.

    He really needs to find a dealer that can 'pull' the trouble code(s)...well worth the shop charge! Once he has a code, there are plenty of experts here, that can figure this out.

  9. #9
    I am back.

    Thanks for all the help. I decided to winterize the MSX150 and wait until spring to see about getting it fixed. I am tooooo old to do much more than change the oil and filter. I will take the MSX150 to the local dealer and see what they can do, but I am thinking not much (they are a rather clueless bunch).

    What about selling it? What are these things going for. My wife and I looked at a Waverunner HO Cruiser at the Birmingham boat show and really liked it so we are thinking maybe that is the way we need to go.

    Thanks again for the help, will post when I see what the dealer can do.

    Lennie

  10. #10
    Rocky_Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LennieT View Post
    I am back.

    Thanks for all the help. I decided to winterize the MSX150 and wait until spring to see about getting it fixed. I am tooooo old to do much more than change the oil and filter. I will take the MSX150 to the local dealer and see what they can do, but I am thinking not much (they are a rather clueless bunch).

    What about selling it? What are these things going for. My wife and I looked at a Waverunner HO Cruiser at the Birmingham boat show and really liked it so we are thinking maybe that is the way we need to go.

    Thanks again for the help, will post when I see what the dealer can do.

    Lennie
    Welcome back!

    If it is just the ETB...it would be a shame to let this ski go.

    Like I mentioned earlier...just see if the dealer can give you the trouble codes. That should only put you into a minimum labor charge...and we can figure out the rest.

    The Weber engine is a German engineering marvel...lots of power, and little gas consumption. Everything is computer controlled, and that can be frustrating...but this same computer can tell you what is wrong.

    Keep in touch...!

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