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  1. #1

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    GTX DI need help

    Hi,

    I got an 03 GTX DI that has been perfect for the last 30 hours, was pulling 6820-6840rpm and ran 54mph on the GPS. Pulled hard and not hesitations at all, the thing ran like a dream. It has done 125 hours all up. Pump unit it all in A1 condition. Also compression is 145psi in both cylinders.

    It started to cut out on me and would not idle and just stall after about riding for 30 minutes. After this point the ski lost a few 100rpm top end ans also has lost a bit of power, does not have the pull that it had before.

    I took it in to get checked and they found that it was running a bit rich because the air pump was sticking and that the inside of my exhaust manifold collapsed. Got the air pump sorted and manifold welded up and a new seal put in. They check air/fuel pressures and all is fine and the regulators are all fine. Voltages are all fine too and everything is within spec.

    The ski is still sluggish and is only pulling 6300rpm +/- 50rpm and just has no power like it used to. I know how it ran before and it is not running like it used to before the initial problems.

    If the air and fuel is all good, what else could be causing it to be sluggish? Could the water regulator cause it to lose power? I know if the regulator is stuffed I will lose top end RPM. Because the ski started cutting out initially i suspected fuel pump but they tell me its not a fuel pump.

    I am going to get it back and run it on water for a while to see if it will still cut out after about 30min riding.

    What can I check or do??

    Cheers.


  2. #2
    A water regulator problem could cause a loss in rpm. I would also pull the rave valves and check them. Make sure they are clean, not sticking, and the diaphrams are in good shape. You can also take a look at the cylinder walls and pistons while they are out.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha Performance View Post
    A water regulator problem could cause a loss in rpm. I would also pull the rave valves and check them. Make sure they are clean, not sticking, and the diaphrams are in good shape. You can also take a look at the cylinder walls and pistons while they are out.
    Cheers for you feedback. I am hoping to collect the ski tomorrow as they have pretty much given up on it as they can not fault it.

    I should have mentioned that the compression test was done while they have had it and all is good. I would assume they would have checked the RAVEs too but then again they may have not. I have the rave solenoid replaced not long ago and I cleaned the raves at the same time, which was about 30 hours ago. I'll check the raves as soon as I get it back. But also the fact that it was reving to 6300rpm +/- 50rpm suggest to me the raves are ok because the last time i had a rave issue it would bog at about 5900rpm.

    The only other part that I am thinking it could be is the water regulator. But would a water regulator cause a loss of power? I know it will cause a drop of RPM at top end, I have lost about 500rpm and also power is down. The ski does not have the pull that it did below 6000rpm.

    I initially thought fuel pump, but they assure me the fuel pressures are all ok. The engine runs and sounds great and the plugs look 100% spot on too, just 500rpm short and low on power. Something it holding it back but I am not sure what.

    If I pull the water line from the water regulator to power pipe to check water regulator opration and inspect the water flow on water as RPM increase, with no water going into the exhaust I should get my rpm back if it is a regulator issue??

    I just dont want to go buying a regulator or fuel pump if I am not sure that is the problem.

    Cheers

  4. #4
    96XPSS's Avatar
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    Check the check valve under the intake that feeds the RAVES, and make sure the RAVE solenoid is opening. It sounds like your RAVES aren't opening at all. You will lose the exact rpms you describe when they aren't opening.

    Pull the caps and remove the springs, and make a test run to ses if your rpms come back. It's disappointing your dealer couldn't diagnose this...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96XPSS View Post
    Check the check valve under the intake that feeds the RAVES, and make sure the RAVE solenoid is opening. It sounds like your RAVES aren't opening at all. You will lose the exact rpms you describe when they aren't opening.

    Pull the caps and remove the springs, and make a test run to ses if your rpms come back. It's disappointing your dealer couldn't diagnose this...
    At what RPM should I see the RAVES pop up?

  6. #6
    mibunkerking's Avatar
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    with the caps and springs out they will pop up as soon as you start it. this will cause your lower end to suck but if the rave are the problem you will get your peak rpms back.

  7. #7
    PEST!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 96XPSS View Post
    Check the check valve under the intake that feeds the RAVES, and make sure the RAVE solenoid is opening. It sounds like your RAVES aren't opening at all. You will lose the exact rpms you describe when they aren't opening.

    Pull the caps and remove the springs, and make a test run to ses if your rpms come back. It's disappointing your dealer couldn't diagnose this...
    DI's use air pressure from the air system to activate the Raves. Little more pressure than the standard 951 thats why the dont have bellows its more like pistons. When you kill the engine the rave vaves will cycle you can hear it.
    We had a DI that kept fouling the plugs we run the pressure test on the fuel and the fuel pressure regulator checked bad. We put in a new one it ran great for about 1 hour then the same thing happened . The problem was the Air fuel Rail. The air regulator (part of the rail) was bad and caused the fuel reg to be ruined. If you "DEALER" isnt experianced with the DI He/She needs to read and run a fuel pressure test running and not. You need special guage and need to know what pressure at witch condition it varies from 35 to over 100 and has a lot to do with how it runs. The fuel sock (bottom of pump) or filter can be dirty. Hard to tell if its only limiting flow so the pressure drops when your riding... LOts of posible causes. But Fuel and air is were I would start

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by PEST! View Post
    DI's use air pressure from the air system to activate the Raves. Little more pressure than the standard 951 thats why the dont have bellows its more like pistons. When you kill the engine the rave vaves will cycle you can hear it.
    We had a DI that kept fouling the plugs we run the pressure test on the fuel and the fuel pressure regulator checked bad. We put in a new one it ran great for about 1 hour then the same thing happened . The problem was the Air fuel Rail. The air regulator (part of the rail) was bad and caused the fuel reg to be ruined. If you "DEALER" isnt experianced with the DI He/She needs to read and run a fuel pressure test running and not. You need special guage and need to know what pressure at witch condition it varies from 35 to over 100 and has a lot to do with how it runs. The fuel sock (bottom of pump) or filter can be dirty. Hard to tell if its only limiting flow so the pressure drops when your riding... LOts of posible causes. But Fuel and air is were I would start
    The RAVE valves do go trough the cycle when the engine is turned off. I could hear it when flushing the ski with the seat off.

    I can check the water regulator and raves when I get it back and that's as much as I can do as I do not have the tools to test air/fuel.

    I will have to try my luck with a different dealer after the Christmas break if it is not RAVE valve related.

    I have been told that the primed and running pressures are all ok and within spec. But to be honest, I do not believe it. It's come to the point where they are telling me that it is normal for a DI to turn 6300rpm, which I know is a load of BS and I told them that.

  9. #9

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    One more question. Can I do the RAVE test on the trailer or is it best to do it on the water.

    I got the ski back today. On the trailer the engine is real punchy and will hit the ~7200rpm limiter with less then half throttle. I did not pull the rave caps as it was revving out with no load.

  10. #10
    You can check them for free play with the motor off. I would pull them so you can also take a look at the pistons.

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