Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    downunder123
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    104
    +1
    6

    Check Engine Red Light

    The usual story, water got into my Genesis DI 2001 and I had to rebuilt the engine…….expensive lesson which I have learned now (hold bearing worn).
    After the accident the “Check Engine” warning appeared on MFI and so as the red flashing light. At the time I didn’t pay to much attention to it since the engine was ceased, but now when I am back on water with new engine the warning still appears together with the red light. It seems to me that is heat related because the warning and the light pop up within first 5-10 min of ride and then stay on for the rest of the ride. I have done only 5hrs with the rebuilt engine ( the ski rides fine) and have been “feeling” the cylinders during ride. They seem warm with the center cylinder bit warmer (normal???)
    Also the ski rides ok and no issues, just annoyance that I can not see any other info but Check Engine message (the light can be reset by pressing the Display button and stays off for a while). Also, during the ‘flood” the electrical box got filled with water but I’ve cleaned it. Does anybody have any ideas or previous experience with this? Where is that temp sensor? How do I check it?
    This is my first post. I found the forum very very helpful. Cheers


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,575
    +1
    1,272
    Welcome to the Hulk!

    Have you downloaded the appropriate Polaris Factory Service Manuals from here?

    There is a temp sensor inside the EMM itself. Are you sure you have the cooling water hose routing correct for the EMM and the flywheel cover? No kinked hoses? These small hoses cool both the cover and the EMM, then the water exits at the rear, alongside the engine exhaust.

    Have you checked the thermostat and housing at the end of the water bar for corrosion/clogs? You can remove the thermostat and ride with it out. The engine will run fine.

    Also check the cooling water inlet screen, which is located inside the tapered jet pump nozzle (not the steering nozzle, the fixed jet pump nozzle). It can be hard to see the screen in there, but it needs to be clear of debris.

    There is another temp sensor on the exhaust system. Check the wiring, and perhaps unplug that sensor on your next ride, after the warning appears, and see if the warning goes away with the exhaust temp sensor unplugged.

  3. #3
    Bernie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    902
    +1
    1
    When the light is flashing ,does it cut the engine revs back ?

    Bernie

  4. #4
    downunder123
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    104
    +1
    6
    There are two small gray hoses that I have put back as they were, one in between the computer and top of the Flywheel cover, and another short one in the bottom of the Flywheel that is T split from the large black one that goes in the exhaust from the very back of the hull. No kinks or bends. I have checked the thermostat and that seems ok. I dont quite understand the purpose and meaning of that thermostat. It has no electronic or any wires? Strange thing?????
    On my next ride I will disconnect the temp sensor from the exhaust just to see whether will make any difference. The water inlet on the right side of the fixed jet pump you have mentioned seems clean. The only thing I am not sure about is that orifice/screen that manual says is for cooling the exhaust. It is disconnected and not quite sure where it goes (manual is not clear to me). On one side is that funny looking orifice connected to clear hose that doesn’t go anywhere, just hangs with no use. I was looking for the obvious spot to reconnect it but couldn’t find it. And just where is that orifice suppose to take small amounts of water? Would that make any difference to exhaust since I can see the water running out in small amounts out of outside back exhaust hole when I flush the ski?
    Also when light and warning appear the engine is still revving fine and rides ok. Cheers

  5. #5
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,575
    +1
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by bspanovic View Post
    There are two small gray hoses that I have put back as they were, one in between the computer and top of the Flywheel cover, and another short one in the bottom of the Flywheel that is T split from the large black one that goes in the exhaust from the very back of the hull. No kinks or bends.
    There is a third small hose, that takes the cooling water from the EMM and drains it out the back, at the engine exhaust exit.

    Page 142 (3.64 )


    I have checked the thermostat and that seems OK. I don't quite understand the purpose and meaning of that thermostat. It has no electronic or any wires?...

    The thermostat is entirely mechanical. As the water around it warms up, it opens a valve through the thermostat, allowing increased water flow through the engine, thereby maintaining the engine temperature.

    On my next ride I will disconnect the temp sensor from the exhaust just to see whether will make any difference. The water inlet on the right side of the fixed jet pump you have mentioned seems clean.
    Don't disconnect the exhaust temp sensor if the cooling hose (below) needs reconnecting.

    The only thing I am not sure about is that orifice/screen that manual says is for cooling the exhaust. It is disconnected and not quite sure where it goes (manual is not clear to me). On one side is that funny looking orifice connected to clear hose that doesn’t go anywhere, just hangs with no use. I was looking for the obvious spot to reconnect it but couldn’t find it. And just where is that orifice suppose to take small amounts of water? Would that make any difference to exhaust since I can see the water running out in small amounts out of outside back exhaust hole when I flush the ski?

    Water comes out of the exhaust exit from the EMM cooling water exit, and from water sprayed into the exhaust stream through the orifice fitting.

    Also when light and warning appear the engine is still revving fine...
    Can you show us a picture of this disconnected hose on your 2001 Genesis Ficht engine?
    (Reply in Advanced Mode, scroll down to the Manage Attachments button. Upload your JPG picture(s), then click Preview to confirm picture is good.)

    It sounds like that hose is the one that sprays cooling water inside the exhaust system, to prevent the rubber hoses and such from over heating.

    If this is the hose that has been disconnected, you need to carefully check the large rubber hose sections downstream from the exhaust manifold. They can become burned on the interior, and risk collapse or even break open while you are riding. This will strand you on the water.

    You may need to actually remove each rubber section and check for internal heat damage. Also check the plastic PLANET resonator modules for heat damage.

    Look on page 50 (2.16 ) in the 2002 Polaris Service Manual for details regarding how this hose is supposed to be connected, and how to check the filter screen on the orifice fitting.

    The screened orifice fitting takes water from the water jacket surrounding the main exhaust manifold, and injects it through the second fitting directly into the exhaust gas stream. This water cools the gases enough to prevent the remainder of the exhaust system (which is not water jacketed) from over heating.

    The more photos your can provide, the easier it is for us to see what you have, and perhaps detect other potential problems.

  6. #6
    Bernie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    902
    +1
    1
    Ok so you have a soft code being set .Any of the hard codes will bring the limit engine safety rpm limit into the picture .Have aread of this
    Check your sensors for the correct values Air temp especially as they cause issues .It May even be damaged if you take the air cleaner cover off you will see if it has damaged the sensor face

    Cheers
    Bernie
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7
    downunder123
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    104
    +1
    6
    Ok, was on the water today and have tried disconnecting the sensor on the exhaust manifold with the engine cold. Immediately the Ski goes to S.L.O.W and MFI displayed “CHECK ENGINE and OVERHEAT ” (with the sensor connected only CHECK ENGINE appears after 5 min or so). So I don’t think that sensor is the problem. Also after reading the DI manual (thanx) I am presuming that sensor is the Water Temperature Sensor.
    Have used freezer spray during engine running and sprayed around the above sensor and on the EMM box but did not get rid of the CHECK ENGINE message. Have sprayed around warm engine only and still no change.
    On picture A with my finger pointing and according to the manual is where that loose Orifice/screen hose (picture C) should be connected??????? What is the purpose of that black small hose connecting exhaust manifold at two points? Tomorrow I will look for any other fittings on the exhaust system for that hose with orifice (founded loose at the back of the hull). The orifice end itself seemed was connected for the hull somewhere, suppose in the water ?????
    On picture B my finger is pointing on the water hose T split I was writing about earlier. The main water big black hose comes from the back of the hull and splits (around under Flywheel area) into another short big black hose that is connected to the exhaust manifold (bottom large fitting). Is this how the exhaust gets cooled? Why does it need that orifice/screen thing?
    The other hose connected to that T split (picture B) is a short gray hose connected to the fitting at the low point on the front Flywheel cover. Is that the water supply for the EMM? Why is than EMM short gray hose connected to the top of the front Flywheel cover ???????????
    I thing I will remove that thermostat/pop off valve altogether from the water bar and have maximum water flow through the engine. Useless thing.
    I will also tomorrow clean and measure the resistance of the Air Temperature Sensor and Water Temperature Sensor on the Main EMM 40 pin so as the exhaust rubber hoses. If sensors measure correct resistance the last sensor is the Internal EMM sensor which I think is beyond my expertise, if faulty (is it?).
    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	A.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	2.04 MB 
ID:	112514   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	B.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	1.77 MB 
ID:	112515   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	2.07 MB 
ID:	112516  

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,575
    +1
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by bspanovic View Post
    Ok, was on the water today and have tried disconnecting the sensor on the exhaust manifold with the engine cold. Immediately the Ski goes to S.L.O.W and MFI displayed “CHECK ENGINE and OVERHEAT ” (with the sensor connected only CHECK ENGINE appears after 5 min or so). So I don’t think that sensor is the problem. Also after reading the DI manual (thanx) I am presuming that sensor is the Water Temperature Sensor.
    Have used freezer spray during engine running and sprayed around the above sensor and on the EMM box but did not get rid of the CHECK ENGINE message. Have sprayed around warm engine only and still no change.
    On picture A with my finger pointing and according to the manual is where that loose Orifice/screen hose (picture C) should be connected??????? What is the purpose of that black small hose connecting exhaust manifold at two points? Tomorrow I will look for any other fittings on the exhaust system for that hose with orifice (founded loose at the back of the hull). The orifice end itself seemed was connected for the hull somewhere, suppose in the water ?????
    On picture B my finger is pointing on the water hose T split I was writing about earlier. The main water big black hose comes from the back of the hull and splits (around under Flywheel area) into another short big black hose that is connected to the exhaust manifold (bottom large fitting). Is this how the exhaust gets cooled? Why does it need that orifice/screen thing?
    The other hose connected to that T split (picture B) is a short gray hose connected to the fitting at the low point on the front Flywheel cover. Is that the water supply for the EMM? Why is than EMM short gray hose connected to the top of the front Flywheel cover ???????????
    I thing I will remove that thermostat/pop off valve altogether from the water bar and have maximum water flow through the engine. Useless thing.
    I will also tomorrow clean and measure the resistance of the Air Temperature Sensor and Water Temperature Sensor on the Main EMM 40 pin so as the exhaust rubber hoses. If sensors measure correct resistance the last sensor is the Internal EMM sensor which I think is beyond my expertise, if faulty (is it?).
    Cheers
    Now we are getting somewhere!

    The third photo of the clear hose with the mesh screen on the end, is the bilge suction hose. It is normally installed with the mesh screen positioned in the bottom rear of the hull, where it can pick up any water that gets inside the hull.

    The plastic elbow must be mounted up high, usually just under the rear of the seat somewhere. It has a small hole in the side of the elbow, that must not be clogged. The purpose of the elbow is to prevent water from siphoning back into the hull when the engine is off, and the hull is floating.

    The open end of the hose must be connected to a nipple, located beside the jet pump tunnel. That nipple connects via a small hose to the siphon fitting inside the jet pump nozzle (a metal tube positioned within the water stream inside the nozzle). When the engine is running, the water flow causes a suction inside the siphon tube, which then draws any bilge water out of the hull.

    When the engine is not running, water will enter the hull if the bilge hose hose is not connected (with the elbow mounted high). Check whether your model has one or two bilge suction fittings (look inside the rear of the jet pump for one or two pencil diameter metal tubes). If you have two, both must be hooked up.


    The second photo shows where the small cooling water tees off from the main cooling water feed. It flows into the bottom of the stator cover, out the top fitting on the stator cover, then through the EMM. Then the water flows to the rear, where it exits alongside the exhaust exit.


    The first photo shows the small hose that supplies water from the exhaust water jacket (the exhaust manifold is double walled, with water pumped between the inner and outer walls). The upper fitting is the one with the mesh screen filter, and it receives water from the water jacket. The other end is a nipple that injects the water through the exhaust manifold directly into the exhaust itself, inside the inner wall of the water jacket. It is built this way so you can get at the mesh screen, to inspect it regularly, and replace it if need be.

    It is hard to tell, but I suspect that your screen fitting has never been removed for inspection. Remove the hose, then find a deep socket that fits the upper fitting, and unscrew it. Remove any debris that you find on the mesh screen, confirm that the centre hole is clear, clean the threads, then reinstall with a suitable thread sealant. Check the hole through the fitting at the other end of the hose - make sure it is also clear.

    Sensors - Sometimes the air sensor, which is mounted through the bottom of the flame arrestor base (part 19 in this diagram), can be damaged by a stiffening fin from the arrestor top cover. When you have the top off, look for a cut or pressure mark on the rubberized button that is the top of the sensor. Many of us have trimmed the two plastic tabs so they no longer can touch the sensor. In my own case, after trimming the covers, I just dabbed some marine grade silicone sealant on the cleaned sensors (I have three Ficht machines), and they continue to work just fine.

  9. #9
    downunder123
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    104
    +1
    6
    Have measured Water and Oil sensors and both give correct resistance. With the Air Sensor, cleaned the rubber head and shaved plastic around it (cover) but couldn't measure it without going either on EMM or Electrical Board. I suppose if nothing above helps that is next.
    Also, have found the connection nozzle for that elboed hose . It is missing the outside hose. The nozzle was siliconed from inside and closed from outside.
    I will hit the water on Sunday..............
    Cheers

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    near Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    36,575
    +1
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by bspanovic View Post
    ...found the connection nozzle for that elbowed hose. It is missing the outside hose.

    The nozzle was siliconed from inside and closed from outside...
    Sounds like someone may have changed the nozzle on the jet pump, and the replacement nozzle didn't have the bilge suction fitting?

    If you don't have the suction bilge drain, do you have an electric bilge pump installed?

    I would be hesitant to go riding without one or the other. If you spring even a minor leak, and don't notice it until the hull is half full of water, you can easily swamp the engine if you don't have any way of getting the water out so you can ride back to safety.

    If you read these forums, you will see stories along the lines of "... I was out riding, and didn't notice at first that it was floating lower in the water, until the engine sputtered (from sloshing water getting sucked into the engine air intake). I looked under the seat, and the water level was really high!"

    Next sentence is either "I ran the bilge pump continually, and was able to get back to the dock." or "I couldn't get the water out, the engine died, and I had to be towed/rescued (possibly after waiting on/in the water for hours for help to come)."

    Being stranded on the water is no fun, and can get serious very quickly. Be sure you have some way of getting water out of the bilge.

    The automatic Rule brand bilge pumps are a good choice, since they will work even if you have not yet noticed that there is water inside the hull.

    BTW, have you taken the time to peruse the High Performance Watercraft Safety forum on here?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-26-2012, 10:16 PM
  2. Check Engine Warning Light indicator
    By GTI-SE4426 in forum Yamaha PWC Performance (4-stroke)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-29-2008, 12:32 AM
  3. Check engine light! Not pulling a code... HELP!!
    By Venator in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-10-2006, 07:58 PM
  4. check engine light came on when i went down to sea level
    By macattack in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-01-2005, 02:00 PM
  5. Check Engine Light
    By meeper in forum 4-Tec Performance
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-27-2005, 04:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •