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Thread: Hard to Start

  1. #1
    polaristxi's Avatar
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    Hard to Start

    Have a 2001 TXi (1200 DFI) thats getting harder to start. The engine was replaced 2 years ago with a factory engine. Now have 60 hours since new. Takes 3 to 4 attempts to get it to run. After it starts, it runs GREAT!!!. Restarts take several attempts.

    Compression - 130 all cylinders, stator ohms out ok, fuel pressure- 25psi, battery shows 10.5 vdc while cranking, new spark plugs (correct p/n installed), no faults on EMU, no 'check engine' light.

    Have borescoped the cylinders and piston domes. Looks ok.

    Am getting ready to pull the fuel pump and check the valve.

    I'm open to any suggestions except getting rid of the ski. The TXi is a great machine once you understand the fuel injection and what controls it.

    Thanks


  2. #2
    Moderator beerdart's Avatar
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    I am not that up on the DI skis but I would guess a fuel problem. Pickup screen filter etc..

  3. #3
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    What is the voltage on the White/Red wires feeding the injectors? You may be able to tap in at one of the harness splices.

    The 45 volt White/Red injector feed should be over 20 volts while cranking (with all injectors connected), then jump to near 45 volts with the engine running.

    If you unplug one of the electrical connectors at the injector, does it start more easily?


    Does disconnecting the TPS allow it to start reliably?

    Do you have spark when it doesn't start?

    Since you have confirmed fuel pressure, the fuel pump and pressure regulator are probably OK. Unless there is a possibility of water or contamination in the fuel, I don't think the problem is there.

    10.5VDC at the battery while cranking is marginal, but probably not the core problem.

    My current guess is either the stator or EMM is bad. The stator can ohm test OK with the engine not turning, but still have a problem when there is vibration present. It is also possible that there is a poor connection or corrosion problem in the wiring harness.

    More likely, and the results of the questions above will tell more, is that the EMM has a problem, and is no longer delivering enough DC voltage during cranking to reliably fire the fuel injectors.

    Once the engine does catch, the RPM increases, the EMM DC voltage output rises towards 45 volts, and the engine runs.

    Installing a stronger battery may crank the engine over faster, enough to produce more DC injector voltage (if it is indeed below par), and may start the motor more quickly.

    Unplugging one of the injectors reduces the electrical load on the 45 volt DC power supply inside the EMM. If that causes the engine to start better, it flags the EMM's 45 volt DC output as a likely problem area.

  4. #4
    Bernie's Avatar
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    Does it start well out of the water ?
    Disconnect TPS does it start then?
    If you don't have a multimeter .Take the intake cover off .Put a small amount of fuel in the intake of the ski (table spoon full)Then try and start it .

    Let us know
    Bernie

  5. #5
    polaristxi's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. Have a spare stator that needs to be repaired. Remember seeing a company that repairs them. Do you know or have web site for this service? Also need a source for checking and repairing EMM's. Had these sites book marked, but computor crashed taking their address with it.

    Haven't fired up ski to check voltage. Did note that a brown gooey substance is around the base of the EMM. Not sure if there are any transformers in the EMM that are oil cooled. So guess it will need to be routed for a check-out and repair.

  6. #6

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    John at Jetski Solutions repairs the stators

  7. #7
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polaristxi View Post
    ...Have a spare stator that needs to be repaired. Remember seeing a company that repairs them. Do you know or have web site for this service?

    Also need a source for checking and repairing EMM's. Had these sites book marked, but computer crashed taking their address with it.

    Haven't fired up ski to check voltage. Did note that a brown gooey substance is around the base of the EMM. Not sure if there are any transformers in the EMM that are oil cooled. So guess it will need to be routed for a check-out and repair.
    RM Stator in Canada repairs Polaris stators. Call them to verify they can handle the Ficht type.

    DFI Technologies does the Ficht EMM diagnostics and repair, and can also update the firmware.

    You can remove the EMM top and bottom covers, and inspect underneath. There is a rubbery gel substance that seals the electronics.

  8. #8
    polaristxi's Avatar
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    Problem found. Thanks K447. Pulled the EMM this morning and removed the top plate. Have a transitor that smoked. It melted the sealing material which accounts for the goo on the EMM.

    Have 2 spare (new) EMM. One is a match for the p/n removed. How critical is the serial number data on the injectors to the EMM operation? Have read that they must be input. Would like to find out what transitor smoked before I plug in another EMM. Will email DIU to see if they can tell me from a picture. With spare EMM, don't really want to spent $600 for repair.

  9. #9
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polaristxi View Post
    ...How critical is the serial number data on the injectors to the EMM operation? Have read that they must be input.
    ...don't really want to spent $600 for repair.
    I don't think DFI Technologies charges quite that much for EMM repair.

    My understanding is that because the EMM (and the engine) is tuned to meet Low Emissions specs, it runs quite close to the lean edge much of the time.

    I really don't know how much variation there typically is from one injector to another, but obviously it was enough for Polaris to warn against just swapping EMM and injectors around without keeping the serial number and flow mapping straight.

    Any Polaris dealer with Digital Wrench (the few that still exist) can transfer the fuel injector data between the two EMM units (even without repairing the bad transistor, as long as the EMM still powers up internally).

  10. #10
    polaristxi's Avatar
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    Finally connected all the pieces to make Polaris's Diagnostic program work. Had bought the cables over a year ago. Was a little hesitant to try it out on a good EMM, so this was the oppurtunity I was looking for. Took awhile to get the software loaded. Helps to read the manual. Was able to power up EMM and got to transfer of mapping. Will complete the transfer tomorrow. No hard faults recorded. Goes along with what we learned on the 757 engines. The diagnostics is only as good as the mech thats looking at them.

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