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Thread: 500 miles +

  1. #1
    pro12,txi,msx140 SMOKEWAGON's Avatar
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    500 miles +

    polaris brothers,

    We did another river trip on friday and I'm now over 500 miles for the 2009 season so far.


    The 2004 msx 140 seems to be getting water in the hull from somewhere so I gotta check that out. Any ideas ??


    smokewagon,


  2. #2
    Just another day trying to break all the rules! drbones's Avatar
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    Hey Smoke!

    Check your carrier bearing seal!

    Simple test is to have boat on trailer and level!

    Close rear drain seals and fill hull with fresh water till it is up to level of drive shaft and no higher!

    Oh yea disconnect the battery to prevent posible short of regulator which is low in hull! (DON"T LET WATER LEVEL GET THAT HIGH IN HULL WHEN FILLING!)

    Now crawl under boat and look for any water leaking out of driveshaft seal! If no leak check rear drains! Still no leak your craft is probably taking on water through front hatch under time of front end submerging!

    Only other things to check would be cooling lines for leaks!

  3. #3
    She likes the bike. But the ski gets her wet!!!! xlint89's Avatar
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    I think the good Dr. is right.

    He's got a leaky seal, and Pirate has a leaky seal on his Matrix.

    Sounds like a common problem after 5 years of service.

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow MSX driveshaft through-hull (bearing support carrier) - replacing seals and bearings

    You can rebuild those MSX bearing support units.

    Info has been posted on which way the seal lips are supposed to face (which may be different than the factory installation you have now), and the actual replacement bearing and seal sizes.

    Polaris also sells a bearing and seal rebuild kit, PN 2858113
    The rebuild is documented in Team Tip W-08-05-01
    2003-2004 MSX 140/110/150 Bearing Support Carrier Rebuild Procedure

    Edit: Here is the original thread regarding replacing the bearings and seals in the MSX through-hull bearing assembly.
    I will add a link to it from the Knowledge pages

    My understanding is the the water side seals are to have the spring lips facing inwards, away from the jet pump, while the engine side seal can be either way (stock is the spring lip facing the engine).

    "The replacement bearing is a 6205.
    The inner seal is 25 x 52 x 10 (substituted with 25x52x7)
    The two outer seals are 25x35x10 (substituted with 25x35x7)

    "...local seal provider could not help me out with a stainless spring seal so he offered what all the fishermen do and that is to remove the spring and fit an O ring in it' s place...
    I did not get the measurement of the O ring sorry, as for material nothing special - nitrile 70..."

  5. #5
    AWA Member 32DegH2O's Avatar
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    Personally I'd never fill my hull with water....just asking for trouble! In order to get water to the bearing housing height means your crankcase seals are in water...why would you risk that? You are far better off setting the watercraft in water while on the trailer and run the engine to turn the driveshaft...this will allow water to get in though the bearing housing if that's where it's leaking. If it's leaking somewhere else in the hull than you will see it as well...running the engine will show you if there are any leaks from the water hoses or the engine seals.

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Arrow 2003-2004 MSX 140/110/150 Bearing Support Carrier Rebuild Procedure

    Team Tip W-08-05-01, bearing and seal rebuild kit, PN 2858113

    See attached page1

    Page 2 is here
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Polaris MSX through-hull bearing replacement Team Tip W-08-05-01 (page 1)c.jpg 
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  7. #7
    Just another day trying to break all the rules! drbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32DegH2O View Post
    Personally I'd never fill my hull with water....just asking for trouble! In order to get water to the bearing housing height means your crankcase seals are in water...why would you risk that? You are far better off setting the watercraft in water while on the trailer and run the engine to turn the driveshaft...this will allow water to get in though the bearing housing if that's where it's leaking. If it's leaking somewhere else in the hull than you will see it as well...running the engine will show you if there are any leaks from the water hoses or the engine seals.
    Scott its just for a minute! Were using fresh water! Not enough time to cause any damage! (remember trying to determine if rear drains may be leaking too!!!

    Then I would suggest tilting the nose a little up so that the cranckcase does not get wet!

    But then you are risking water getting on regulator! (But its sealed and I said battery should be disconnected!)

    If you put the MSX in water you won't be able to tell which is leaking cause water will come in through both leaks simultaneously!

  8. #8
    AWA Member 32DegH2O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbones View Post
    Scott its just for a minute! Were using fresh water! Not enough time to cause any damage! (remember trying to determine if rear drains may be leaking too!!!

    Really...hmmm...no damage...ok...I'll let you take the risk if you think there isn't any. Also...ya mean the rear drains aren't in the water while the watercraft is sitting in the water?

    Then I would suggest tilting the nose a little up so that the cranckcase does not get wet!

    The boat would need to be at a 45 degree angle inorder to cover the whole bearing housing and not have it touch the engine. If you are able to do that then ok but I don't know to many trailers that would allow you to tilt that much.

    But then you are risking water getting on regulator! (But its sealed and I said battery should be disconnected!)

    If you trust your seal! I've seen wires caught between case halfs before which couldn't be seen by looking at the outside...but if you're sure.

    If you put the MSX in water you won't be able to tell which is leaking cause water will come in through both leacks simultaneously!

    Then you fix them both right?
    Bottom line is it's far easier, safer and a much more thorough of a check by checking it on the trailer while in the water and running.

  9. #9
    Just another day trying to break all the rules! drbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32DegH2O View Post
    Bottom line is it's far easier, safer and a much more thorough of a check by checking it on the trailer while in the water and running.
    Sorry Smoke for the hijack! but need to settle this!

    Scott! Now your confusing me!

    #1 WHY RUN? (Your asking for damage to rear seal now if water is in boat!) Leak is in rear seal or rear drain! Pressure of boat weight in water forced down into water by by still strapped ski to trailer should be enough to cause leak!

    #2 Easier??? (1-Have to take to ramp vs doing at home) (2-need extra person to help vs doing by self) So to put into water on trailer. You'll need someone to help guide back so just getting level of water just past the driveshaft is submerged to stop! An additional person sitting on boat looking into hull (with strong Flashlight to shine down into back of MSX to see if which leaks first rear seals vs carrier seal! (3-depending salt water vs fresh have to now flush out hull)

    #3 Safer ??????? Go back and read first 2 reasons! Especially guy sitting on boat while backing down ramp!

    #4 Thorough (Maybe; but I have now got to get some friends and drive away from my house to boat ramp and annoy everyone at ramp while I check for leak while stopping anyone else from launching and then have to flush out hull if said ramp is into saltwater!)

    nough said points to more headache vs sitting at house putting back cold one and simply filling little bit of fresh water into hull while finding out where leak is!

    Any way Scott have had several occasions where have submerge all (Virage not MSX) engine into salt water (not ingested) and never had problems with rear seal of motor going bad! (SALT-AWAY IS GREAT!!!)

  10. #10
    AWA Member 32DegH2O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbones View Post
    Sorry Smoke for the hijack! but need to settle this!

    Scott! Now your confusing me!

    Jeff...yes I can see you are confused. Let's look at what was originally posted by Smokewagon...he said:

    "The 2004 msx 140 seems to be getting water in the hull from somewhere so I gotta check that out. Any ideas ??"

    He is going to be looking for a leak which he doesn't know where it's coming from and it could be coming from dozens of places! Where does he say it's the bearing seal or rear drains?...you are assuming! Your method only checks these two things and maybe one or two others. The method I suggested will cover the vast majority, if not all of the possibilities! When a back patient comes into your business and says my back hurts but I don't know why, do you assume already what the problem is?...no I hope not...you ask a bunch of questions and do some tests. With your method, if it truns out not to be one of the issues then what does he do?...go fill the hull to the bond line?...no...he does other tests. Why not cover all the bases with just one method? Sounds easier and simpler to me.

    #1 WHY RUN? To check all the waterlines and engine seals for leaks!! (Your asking for damage to rear seal now if water is in boat!) Why would you run the boat if water is already in the hull from backing it into the water? Wouldn't you then know the leak isn't from the waterlines and engine seals?...so no need to run then. Leak is in rear seal or rear drain! How do you know this?...he doesn't say...you're assuming!! Pressure of boat weight in water forced down into water by by still strapped ski to trailer should be enough to cause leak! This is what I implied by having the pwc on the trailer in the water...why would you let it float free?

    #2 Easier??? (1-Have to take to ramp vs doing at home) alot of people live on the water...no boat ramp needed. I think carrying buckets of water to your dock or trying to find a hose long enough is more work than just lowering it into the water? If not, going to the ramp is no big deal. (2-need extra person to help vs doing by self) Really?...You may need help but I've always been able to do it by myself. So to put into water on trailer. You'll need someone to help guide back so just getting level of water just past the driveshaft is submerged to stop! You can't tell where your boat is when backing up? An additional person sitting on boat looking into hull (with strong Flashlight to shine down into back of MSX to see if which leaks first rear seals vs carrier seal! Why can't you do this?...where are you while the other guy is doing this? (3-depending salt water vs fresh have to now flush out hull) You are looking for dribbles of water coming in...or is the leak that bad that it's like a spraying garden hose coming in? You see the leak...pull out of the water and take a towel to soak up the teaspoon of water that came in...hardly calls for flushing out the hull. Last time I checked, even fresh water can rust metal!

    #3 Safer ??????? Go back and read first 2 reasons! Especially guy sitting on boat while backing down ramp! Again...why do you need help?...are you that old Jeff?

    #4 Thorough (Maybe; but I have now got to get some friends and drive away from my house to boat ramp and annoy everyone at ramp while I check for leak while stopping anyone else from launching and then have to flush out hull if said ramp is into saltwater!) Why do you need help again? If you need to go to a ramp, you are probably going to one you have used before so you will have an idea of when it's busy or not. Even if it is busy, the method only takes 10 mins...15 mins at the most. Heck, I've sat at a ramp for over 20mins. waiting for some of these people to load or unload their vehicle and crap.

    nough said points to more headache vs sitting at house putting back cold one and simply filling little bit of fresh water into hull while finding out where leak is! The headache is in running test after test when a test only covers a few things!...and why can't you have a drink at the ramp?

    Any way Scott have had several occasions where have submerge all (Virage not MSX) engine into salt water (not ingested) and never had problems with rear seal of motor going bad! (SALT-AWAY IS GREAT!!!)Well that's not the only thing you need to watch out for is it? So the method I suggested is safer for your engine and other components.
    So again...do what you want...take the risks! One thing I've always wondered though, why would someone diliberately put water into something that was designed to keep it out as much as possible?

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