06-15-2009, 09:39 AM #1
What I think the forum should be about ...
Several years ago I watched the movie Pay it forward.
Most of us have seen it, if you haven’t I suggest you give it a try and rent it one evening.
To me the Riva forum and now the Greenhulk should be all about the “pay it forward” concept. It just seems that if we all help each other we can accomplish so much more than if we try to do things on our own.
Where I can, I try to help to help new members on the forum – that is why I posted such detailed descriptions of my skis. If I post something on the forum, to the best of my knowledge the information will be factual. I don’t profess to be an expert in everything. I too rely on other forum members to help me along.
One of the high points of MB 2009 for me was just chatting with Ben Herman for about an hour at the boat launching ramp. We went through my ski and then we chatted about different motor configurations. Latter in the morning you could see us racing through the harbor. To me this is what the forum should be all about.
I had a great time at MB. I met all sorts of great people from all over NA. Now in my hotel room on my drive home I find out Leo and his friends in Florida have started a personal attach campaign against me because I posted up the facts about the 2 degree wedge. I don’t think I deserve to be treated like this. What’s worse, actions like this will cause the forum to be dramatically changed.
Instead of being a place where information and ideas are freely exchanged you will have a forum that is nothing but people bragging about how fast there ski is running this week.
You know the only person at MB using a 2 degree wedge was Hallpass. He didn’t have time to test it before MB so he didn’t realize on the set-up that most of us use the wedge doesn’t work that well. If just one person that had bought a wedge hadn’t been afraid of posting their results then Hallpass would have known to leave the wedge off his ski. As it turns out, people were right not to post their results, the personal attack I am now facing is clear indication of that.
Come on guys, we are better than this.
06-15-2009, 09:45 AM #2
06-15-2009, 09:57 AM #3
Phillip - it was good to finally meet you after all these years. You go waaaay back to the Riva days, so we've both been around more than 7 years. I don't know what all the fussing is about - I've seen the posts and don't think they're fair. If someone has a problem with another member, keep it private on PM's or otherwise.
Best wishes on getting the ski back into top form, and looking forward to seeing you again next year.
06-15-2009, 10:11 AM #4
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts
this is a situation i wouldnt keep to pm's...many of us including myself have been asking for results other than team tampas to be posted and the few that did challenge were flamed
06-15-2009, 11:07 AM #5
06-15-2009, 11:12 AM #6
Before you buy a 2 degree wedge for an XL/XLT, try a 5 degree 87 mm nozzle from a GPR or FX/FX HO. You can pick one of these up used for half the price of a wedge.
On a GPR instead of a -2 degree wedge, a 3 degree 87 mm XL/XLT nozzle would do the same thing for half the price of a wedge.
06-15-2009, 11:23 AM #7
06-15-2009, 11:33 AM #8
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
06-15-2009, 11:34 AM #9
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
People have a hard time with two things around here - the truth, and sharing.
Ask yourself - why wouldn't somebody want to know (or want others to know) the results of a product they manufacture? Why get so defensive when somebody asks questions?
This is how I purchase ALL of my parts - 1) Philip tells me about how he tested it and the results he got. 2) Philip sends it to me with this statement "If it works and you want it, then we'll figure out a price. If you don't like it or it doesn't work, send it back."
I have yet to find a more forthright, open, honest and stand-up guy in ANY industry.
Does the wedge work or not? I don't know and I don't care. What I do care about is an attack on a guy that is only interested in finding the truth about something and then sharing what he's found.
06-15-2009, 11:39 AM #10
Hello Philip, I agree 100% with you that people should post what there results are. But the moment you said that you are going to make wedges 2 days later after Leo posted his wedges, Now you are Leo's competitor so you should not be on the forum saying i HEARD Leo's wedges do not work because people may look at that like you are saying that just to sell yours. You stated the (pay it forward) so what you are saying the "pay it forward" concept for you is you are helping the forum and accomplishing so much more by taking someones idea and selling it for yourself and slamming him while your trying to sell it, I think someone watched the wrong movie Most people on the forum know what a wedge is and what it does, Kawasaki, Sea doo and Polaris has been using them forever with very good results.
To give you an example that would be like someone on the forum asking people to post results about another company's modded plate, And me coming on as a competitor and saying i HEARD it does not work but you can buy my plate that would be wrong on my part and bad business.
You said that Leo's friends have been slamming you and personally attacking you, well look at from the other side Philip when we read your posts you have been slamming Leo and personally attacking him the whole time by saying they are to expensive and they do not work and you have never even tested it. At least we can say we were there with Leo and saw the results with his testing with our own eyes.
You also stated that actions like this will cause the forum to be dramatically changed, I agree with you 100% Philip because the next guy on the forum that comes out with something he will think twice about putting it on the forum that someone might take his idea and sell it for themselves. Instead he will keep the info to himself.
Just like you said you help people so do i Philip i always try to help people on the forum or on the phone and i do not expect anything in return. As you may have heard my main business is automotive repairs & transmissions that has been my business for 20 years. Jet ski's came later not because i needed to just because i fell in love with the sport and making them go faster, The customers and friends that i have made from jetski's know what kind of person i am and how devoted to the sport i am, So i will stay behind something that i feel so strongly about especially when i have seen it with my own eyes and also tested on my own ski's. So if the person is getting attacked wrongfully by someone else who is trying to sell wedges, I will post the truth and how i feel about it even if people don't like it and may affect my business but at night i can go to sleep and know i did the right thing.
The only advice i will give you as a business owner is sell your product for what it is, Do not bring up Leo's wedges in every post you make and saying you HEARD it does not work and trying to sell yours it makes you look bad. You said come on guy's, we are better then this. Well if you truly mean that i expect the bashing to stop from both sides.
I did not post this to slam you Philip, I just posted this to show you how some people may look at it differently then how you are looking at it. And if you want you can call me and we can talk i don't think this post needs to keep going on it's not good for the forum. Thank you, Jim
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