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Thread: Stuck impeller.

  1. #1

    Stuck impeller.

    Hello, everyone:

    I was the guy you all helped with my '04 MSX150 "No start" problem.

    Not to worry, no further problems with that issue. Motor is running great.

    My new problem, however, promises to make me pull out the remaining two or three hair that didn't get pulled out during my previous problem.



    I have never had so much as a squeak of a problem from the pump drive. So after pulling the engine out to fix my cracked exhaust, putting the engine back, and having to go back and forth with the many minds on Greenhulk to fix the no start problem, it was frustrating when I put the drive back only to hear a sing loud clank when I tried to start the engine.

    I must confess that I had this problem before I started the engine for the first time after it went back in after the cracked pipe was fixed. I was hoping the “clank” problem might be wrapped up in the no start problem, but now all is well with the engine, and the impeller/diveshaft doesn't turn.

    How can this happen all by itself when the ski hasn't even been in the water?

    I have been tempted to try muscling the impeller in an effort to loosen it, but as tricky as this ski has been for me, I thought it would be a good idea to see what you all thought.

    Things I know:

    As I said, no previous problem at all with the driveshaft/impeller whatsoever.

    I noted the shims under each motor mount after pulling the engine, and not only duplicated them, I actually never even removed the shims at all. But in case I had made an error that I never even knew I made, I made certain the same number of shims were correct when putting the engine back.

    The motor and pump couplings matched exactly, and since I just needed to pull the driveshaft back a few inches, I never did remove the bolts on the guide bearing (not certain what this is called. I’ll have to look it up in my manual) on the hull side.

    So, any thoughts on how to free up the impeller without damaging it?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by ph2ocraft; 07-03-2009 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Format


  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Even with the same shims in the same places, there is still some slop in the engine locating when you lower the engine back down onto the studs.

    I had to loosen the nuts and shift my Virage engine around twice before the alignment tool was happy.
    It also shifts a little bit when the nuts are tightened

    The two section MSX drive shaft is a bigger pain to remove that every other Polaris
    So let's hope your alignment is good enough.

    Pull the jet pump off, and inspect the impeller. If nothing is jammed in there, then either corrosion is binding the impeller against the wear ring, or the impeller bearings have seized.

    In any case, best bet is to pull the jet pump right out, and inspect.

    BTW, what is up with all the weird formatting in your post?

  3. #3
    Thanks for replying, K447.

    Yeah, I see what you mean about the weird formatting. Cutting and pasting the message from MS Word did it. It seems as though I take a little too long to write a post, and greenhulk logs me off after a while, most times before I finish. So I tried cuting and pasting. Guess I won't do THAT again.

    I will follow your advice and let you know how it came out.

    Tnaks again.

  4. #4
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelancenovelist View Post
    ...I see what you mean about the weird formatting. Cutting and pasting the message from MS Word did it. It seems as though I take a little too long to write a post, and greenhulk logs me off after a while, most times before I finish. So I tried cuting and pasting. Guess I won't do THAT again...
    First paste it into Notepad, then select and copy from Notepad and paste into your post.

    Notepad will strip out all the weird formatting.

  5. #5

    Engine seize vs drive shaft or impeller seize

    1996 Waveraider 700; also getting the clank when hit start, engine jerks hard. How can I tell if I have a seized engine or if something else down the line is stuck? It was sitting in lake water without running for about 4 years; lots of marine growth (about 100 little muscles) under the plates and in the nozzle. Would really like to salvage it - is removing the shaft to inspect a difficult process?

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martimouse2 View Post
    1996 Waveraider 700; also getting the clank when hit start, engine jerks hard.

    How can I tell if I have a seized engine or if something else down the line is stuck?

    It was sitting in lake water without running for about 4 years; lots of marine growth (about 100 little muscles) under the plates and in the nozzle.

    Would really like to salvage it - is removing the shaft to inspect a difficult process?
    Is this a Yamaha PWC?

    This is the Polaris section
    Yamaha forum is here.

    Pull the jet pump off and remove the drive shaft.

    Try to turn the engine over by hand. If it will not turn, either the starter is jammed, or the engine is seized.

    If the machine has been sitting in the water for that long, you probably need to really go over it completely to make sure everything is in working condition.

    If you run it on the water with something not right, you can easily damage the engine and/or drive line very quickly (seconds or minutes for some problems).

    If you do get the engine running, I would suggest, that you do the following;
    Replace seals and bearings inside the jet pump, and the through-hull seals.
    Remove all cooling hoses, and check for blockages or other problems.
    Remove and rebuild the carburetors.
    Replace or check all hoses, valves and filters in the fuel system.
    Drain all old fuel out, and clean the tank.
    Replace the battery. Remove and clean all heavy cable electrical connections.
    Make sure the inside of the electrical box is clean and dry - no corrosion.

    But before you do any of the above, first find out if the engine is rusty inside. If there is any water inside the engine, then the engine will need to be rebuilt. Rusty bearings in the crank shaft can fail in a few seconds at high RPM.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the response even though I'm apparently lost - I wasn't paying attention to the section I was in, just looking for some answers and found this thread. I've drained the gas tank, replaced the battery, spark plugs, pulled the ride plate at the grate over the shaft on bottom to clean (yikes). As hard as it's hitting when I bump the start (literally trying to torque the motor to the side), I don't think it's the starter (could be wrong). We sprayed into the spark plug holes with penetrating oil just to be safe and letting that sit overnight. My thinking was to see if it was worth salvaging before starting on the major and cosmetic work, i.e. is the engine seized vs a pump/shaft/impeller seizure. No signs so far of water in the engine, but there has to have been at least some moisture in there. I'm inclined to think it's the shaft/pump/impeller that's seized from the amount of marine growth and corrosion on the ride plate and grate.

    Anyway, thanks again for answering and I'll keep looking on the yamaha forum for some similar discussion - no luck so far there.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martimouse2 View Post
    ...As hard as it's hitting when I bump the start (literally trying to torque the motor to the side), I don't think it's the starter (could be wrong).

    ...I'm inclined to think it's the shaft/pump/impeller that's seized from the amount of marine growth and corrosion on the ride plate and grate...
    Pull the jet pump, for sure.

    The engine would not tilt if the engine itself was seized. The starter is try to turn the jet pump, and the impeller is not letting it.

    Also check that the engine mounts have not been ripped apart, since you say the engine is tilting.

  9. #9

    Confused about multiple-subject threads

    Hello, all:

    I'm confused about something that has been happenning in threads, and this one I began is a good example.

    I wanted to know about a stuck impeller on my MSX150, but after a single reply (which was damned good advice), someone posted a topic question that took the whole thing into a similar but different subject. I think one reply even stuck a Yamaha ski question in there.

    My question is: Did I do something wrong in my post?

    I sure would have liked to get more feedback, but the way it was streered off subject, that probably won't happen? Should I repost again with a new thread? Is there any way to keep this from happening?

    Thanks,

    FLN

  10. #10
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    Arrow Thread Hijacking -what it is, what to do about it

    Quote Originally Posted by freelancenovelist View Post
    Hello, all:

    I'm confused about something that has been happening in threads, and this one I began is a good example.

    I wanted to know about a stuck impeller on my MSX150, but after a single reply (which was damned good advice), someone posted a topic question that took the whole thing into a similar but different subject. I think one reply even stuck a Yamaha ski question in there.

    My question is: Did I do something wrong in my post?

    I sure would have liked to get more feedback, but the way it was steered off subject, that probably won't happen? Should I repost again with a new thread? Is there any way to keep this from happening?

    Thanks,

    FLN
    It is called a thread Hijack.

    When it happens, you can either let it ride, or you can reply or send a Private Message asking the hijacker(s) to post elsewhere.

    Another option is to report the offending post to the moderators. They will either delete the post, or move it to its own thread.

    To report a post, click on the little exclamation mark triangle to the left of the post.

    Provide a short explanation for the report, and a forum moderator will take care of the problem.

    Sometimes the original discussion just gets off track, and we need a reminder.

    Other times, the hijack is a new member who doesn't yet know how to create a new thread in the appropriate forum, so they click Reply in whatever thread they happen to be reading.

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