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  1. #1
    way2much2do's Avatar
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    Questions about 1200TXi engine removal

    I'm guessing K447 or Bernie could provide some insight on these, but anyone else, please chime in if you know.....

    1) I'm getting ready to pull the engine out of my Virage 1200TXi. The service manual says I need to remove BOTH the exhaust system and the throttle bodies. Is this true, or can it be done by removing only the exhaust system?

    2) The service manual also says to remove the injectors? Why on earth would I need to do that?

    3) As at least one other person has posted, I too am "missing" one of the two bolts (#19 in the pic below) that hold the exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold. I discovered tonight that it's not just missing, it's broken off in the manifold! Anyone know why this happens? Was it over-torqued, under-torqued, or are two fasteners just not sufficient? I guess what I'm asking is if I replace it, is it just going to happen again? It's obviously a common problem.





  2. #2
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    The base of the flame arrestor is held down with the same long bolts that run down through the throttle bodies. The FA base is right under the lip of the seat opening, so you have very little room to move the engine around.

    I would remove the six long bolts, and set aside the FA base and the throttle bodies. Gives you more wiggle room.

    The fuel injectors are fragile. You do not want to apply any sideways forces on those injectors.

    You don't even need to undo the fuel lines, just remove the bolts and lift the injectors and brackets off as a set. Protect the injector tips from damage, and shift them out of your way.

    I have not yet encountered the broken exhaust bolt problem, and I hope I don't

    I do not know why the bolt is breaking.

  3. #3
    Bernie's Avatar
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    Take the exhaust out and remove engine .Leave throttle bodies but take aircleaner base off .turn engie as you lift it out

    Bernie

  4. #4
    way2much2do's Avatar
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    As always, thanks you guys. I appreciate the 1200TXi brotherly love!!!

  5. #5
    way2much2do's Avatar
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    Wow....what a productive day. Spent about 5 hours on the lake with the family (riding the SLT, since that's the only machine that's running right now). @#*$& Virage!!!!!!

    I just came in from the garage. The engine on the Virage is just an oil line and a throttle cable away from being ready to remove.

    A couple more questions for you Virage 1200 FFI experts:

    1) The parts diagrams show gaskets between the exhaust manifold and the engine, but I didn't see any when I took mine apart. I just see signs of orange colored RTV. I think I saw K447 comment that you can just use the high-temp copper RTV instead of the gaskets. Just want to confirm that's the right thing to do?

    2) I used a scratch-awl and scribed around the engine mount washers so I can put the engine back in the same place. You guys mentioned before to pay attention to how many shims there are at each corner. I haven't lifted the engine yet, but it's ready to go and I haven't seen any shims. I'm assuming they're located between the top of the rubber mount and the bottom of the engine bed plate? I don't want to pull it apart, have them all fall into the center of the hull, and have no idea where they came from.

    3) During my last ride on this machine, I pulled it out of the water on the trailer and I THINK (not sure about this) I saw water dripping out of the through-hull fitting where the shaft goes through the hull. If this were the case, would that mean my bearing carrier has bad seals? If so, is this something I can visually inspect to confirm? I assume if this is the problem, I would need to replace the entire carrier (you just can't replace the seals, can you)?

    That's all for now. Sorry to be such a pain!!!!

  6. #6
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way2much2do View Post
    ...2) I used a scratch-awl and scribed around the engine mount washers so I can put the engine back in the same place. You guys mentioned before to pay attention to how many shims there are at each corner. I haven't lifted the engine yet, but it's ready to go and I haven't seen any shims. I'm assuming they're located between the top of the rubber mount and the bottom of the engine bed plate? I don't want to pull it apart, have them all fall into the center of the hull, and have no idea where they came from.

    3) During my last ride on this machine, I pulled it out of the water on the trailer and I THINK (not sure about this) I saw water dripping out of the through-hull fitting where the shaft goes through the hull. If this were the case, would that mean my bearing carrier has bad seals? If so, is this something I can visually inspect to confirm? I assume if this is the problem, I would need to replace the entire carrier (you just can't replace the seals, can you)?...
    Stuff a cloth under the engine from front to back. If any shims stick and fall out of place, you will be able to tell where they came from.

    When you lift the engine, the shims will probably stay put on the mounting studs anyway.

    Click here for some info on the through-hull drive shaft seals;
    http://polarispwcknowledge.shorturl....c-on-the-water

    Also check that the Virage only plastic fitting is not leaking. It is behind the through-hull seal assembly.

  7. #7
    way2much2do's Avatar
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    Leaking stator seal, broken exhaust pipe bolt, and loose bed plate bolts

    Engine Removal
    Thanks for the help, guys. Engine is out.

    Engine mount shims stayed in place. Installed nuts to make sure they don't go anywhere while I'm working on the engine. Pesky shims....sometimes, they like to get up and move around.

    Broken Exhaust Pipe-to-Exhaust Manifold Bolt
    I successfully extracted the broken bolt from exhaust manifold. I will order a new bolt and hope this one doesn't break off.

    Loose Engine Bed Plate Bolts
    I repaired the loose bed plate bolts at the front of the engine. After careful inspection, I'm 99% sure the bolts were never tightened properly from the factory. The bolts were installed with loc-tite and the stainless tab that runs between the bolts had the ends bent over (poor man's safety wire) so there's no way they backed out. Once I saw this, I thought for sure the threads were going to be toast.

    But, once I removed the bed plate bolts, the threads on both the bolts and in the bottom of the engine looked good. The only exception was the portion of the bolts that were not threaded into the engine block and had been "hammered" by the bed plate due to the loose bolts. This is not really important, since those threads aren't doing anything anyway.

    I ran a tap in the bottom of the engine holes just to chase the threads, and the tap went in both holes VERY easily - the only thing that came out on the tap looked like loc-tite remnants.

    After cleaning the holes and bolts, I applied lots of loc-tite, and then torqued them to 60 ft-lbs (factory spec is 50).

    Leaking front stator cover
    I found the source of the leaking stator cover. The seal (#20 in the diagram below) was folded over on itself. Once again, I believe this was occurring since day one. This may be a stupid question, but why is water running through that area anyway???? Does the stator generate that much heat??

    I will order a new seal and install it as soon as it arrives.

  8. #8
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way2much2do View Post
    ...
    Broken Exhaust Pipe-to-Exhaust Manifold Bolt
    I successfully extracted the broken bolt from exhaust manifold. I will order a new bolt and hope this one doesn't break off.
    What is the thread for that bolt?
    Would a high strength Stainless Steel bolt upgrade be worthwhile?


    Loose Engine Bed Plate Bolts
    I repaired the loose bed plate bolts at the front of the engine. After careful inspection, I'm 99% sure the bolts were never tightened properly from the factory. The bolts were installed with loc-tite and the stainless tab that runs between the bolts had the ends bent over (poor man's safety wire) so there's no way they backed out. Once I saw this, I thought for sure the threads were going to be toast.

    But, once I removed the bed plate bolts, the threads on both the bolts and in the bottom of the engine looked good. The only exception was the portion of the bolts that were not threaded into the engine block and had been "hammered" by the bed plate due to the loose bolts. This is not really important, since those threads aren't doing anything anyway.

    I ran a tap in the bottom of the engine holes just to chase the threads, and the tap went in both holes VERY easily - the only thing that came out on the tap looked like loc-tite remnants.

    After cleaning the holes and bolts, I applied lots of loc-tite, and then torqued them to 60 ft-lbs (factory spec is 50).
    This is a known problem with some domestic engines. Bernie had several engines with loose bolts. Not sure what years/models were affected, but some of the injected 1200 engines for sure.
    His advice was exactly what you did - clean it up, use thread locker, and over-torque those bolts.

    Leaking front stator cover
    I found the source of the leaking stator cover. The seal (#20 in the diagram below) was folded over on itself. Once again, I believe this was occurring since day one. This may be a stupid question, but why is water running through that area anyway???? Does the stator generate that much heat??

    I will order a new seal and install it as soon as it arrives.
    The Ficht stator does generate heat. The electrical power output is much higher than the CDI engines.

    In addition to the water cooled flywheel cover, the front engine bearing has a separate oil feed to improve lubrication.

    While you have it apart, check the small cooling hoses. Make sure they are clear flowing and are not kinked anywhere.

  9. #9
    way2much2do's Avatar
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    What is the thread for that bolt?
    Would a high strength Stainless Steel bolt upgrade be worthwhile?

    It's metric, just slightly larger than 3/8-16. I didn't have my metric tap and die set here today - just my SAE set, but I'll have it at home in the next day or so and I'll let you know what size bolt that is. There's two bolts that hold that pipe - I don't understand why one would break and the other wouldn't (obviously - more stress on one - ha!). Anyway, my current plan is to just order a new factory bolt and torque it properly with loc-tite and hope for the best. I'm hoping that like the bed plate bolts, the exhaust bolt wasn't torqued properly at the factory. Several hard waves and the hammering from the massive weight of that pipe could have caused it to break.

    Do I need exhaust manifold gaskets?
    I'm just about to place an order for parts from Babbitt's and I never got an answer about the exhaust manifold gaskets. It sure doesn't look like my machine had them. Do I really need to order them or will the high temp RTV work? They're like $14/each!!!

    "While you have it apart, check the small cooling hoses. Make sure they are clear flowing and are not kinked anywhere. "

    You must be psychic, K!! That little hose that goes from the T to the bottom of the stator cover has a crack in it so I'm ordering a new one of those.

  10. #10
    Click avatar for tech links/info, donation request K447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way2much2do View Post
    ...Do I need exhaust manifold gaskets?
    I'm just about to place an order for parts from Babbitt's and I never got an answer about the exhaust manifold gaskets. It sure doesn't look like my machine had them.

    Do I really need to order them or will the high temp RTV work? They're like $14/each!!!
    As far as I know, the exhaust gaskets sometimes caused warpage in the cylinders, and Polaris switched to sealant instead of gaskets.

    Per the service manual
    , use Ultra Copper silicone to seal the exhaust manifold.

    Permatex Ultra Copper RTV technical data sheet

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