problem polaris virage txi do not start

[dudule45]

Hello everyone,


I'm new to the forum and happy to be part of it, excuse me for my english because I'm french and not bilingual.


I own a 2002 txi polaris with a boot problem.
I am a car mechanic and like to tinker.
So I carried out a diagnosis which is the following:
new battery
-lighting ok (sparkles with three candles
fuel pump in new tank (hard to change)
-the three injectors remain closed at startup
-the pump is not powered (+ 12v ok but no mass brown wire)


I dismounted the emm and removed the gelatin, no signs of overheating or broken solder.: -?


In France we have no diagnostic tool and no professional able to perform a complete diag and especially the parts are very very rare.


Thanks for your help


wink at km447 for his answer in pm

[martincom]

To clarify your message:

1. You've replaced the fuel pump or the fuel tank?

2. The fuel pump does not function, you have +12 volts to the pump, but no ground path on the brown wire (fuel pump enable from the EMM).


Disconnect the large 40 pin connector from the EMM. Ground the pin receptacle for pin 40, brown wire, the fuel pump enable pin, through a current meter. Does the pump run? What is the current draw of the pump?

[dudule45]

first of all thank you for your help,
1.Yes
2.yes
I put the pump in the tank and I change without checking the old because the former owner confirmed that it was defective (but it was wrong)
the pump works by grounding the brown wire, the flow is correct since it is new.

[martincom]

the flow is correct since it is new.

Check the pump current flow (amperage). Here in the USA, we have found nearly all the claimed "direct replacement" aftermarket fuel pumps draw too much current. Typically, approximately 7.0 amps. The original equipment manufacturer (OEM) pump draws approximately 3.0 amps. The excessive current draw of the aftermarket pumps will cause the fuel pump driver, within the EMM, to overheat, often generate a fault code, operate intermittently, and/or fail.

[dudule45]

for the control of the intensity of the pump, I do it this week and I'll let you know.
is the control of the injectors and the pump connected?
When there is an error code in the EMM, it prohibits the start necessarily by cutting the injection?
Lanyard cuts the injection or ignition?
A lot of questions sorry but it allows me to move forward in my research, usa you are much more successful than us in France on this subject.
thank you

[K447]

The EMM controls everything. It is a computer that watches the sensor inputs and decides when to the run the engine.

The fuel pump is the only thing that runs with 12 volt battery power. The EMM controls the fuel pump using the Brown wire, switched to ground to activate fuel pump.

Everything else is powered from white/red wire. That '45 volt' power comes from the EMM 8-pin connection and connects via a 4-pin loop-through diagnostic connector. That powers the big 40-pin connector, which powers the EMM and controls the fuel injectors, ignition coils, engine sensors, etc.

for the control of the intensity of the pump, I do it this week and I'll let you know.
is the control of the injectors and the pump connected?
When there is an error code in the EMM, it prohibits the start necessarily by cutting the injection?
Lanyard cuts the injection or ignition?
A lot of questions sorry but it allows me to move forward in my research, usa you are much more successful than us in France on this subject.
thank you

[martincom]

is the control of the injectors and the pump connected?

Ignition, injectors and the fuel pump are all ultimately controlled by the CPS. Nothing functions until the CPS detects rotation. As you have ignition (spark), we can conclude the CPS is functioning. The injectors are powered from the 45VDC supply. The fuel pump is powered from the 12VDC supply. So their control circuits, while ultimately controlled by the CPS input, are independent.

When there is an error code in the EMM, it prohibits the start necessarily by cutting the injection?

No. Certain error codes will limit the maximum RPM of the engine. This is what is termed as SLOW mode, in Polaris documentation. You can obtain more information on this and other things here.

Lanyard cuts the injection or ignition?

Both.

Everything electrical/electronic within your Virage; except the fuel pump, starter motor, bilge pump, and MFD; is powered from the 45VDC supply that is completely independent of the battery/12VDC. It is derived by rectifying and summing sections of the stator within the power board of the EMM. The EMM has two sections: power and CPU. They are two separate circuit boards and are not interconnected internally. The large, 40 pin connector, connects to the CPU board. The two smaller connectors connect to the power board. One is the input from the stator and the other is the output supply voltages.

When checking your fuel pump current, also check the 45VDC supply. Do this by connecting a DC volt meter between ground and the white/red wire that connects to the injectors and the diagnostic port connector. You must keep everything connected when making this measurement. You cannot open a connector to simplify connecting the meter. This is usually done by sliding a needle or fine probe between the sealing boot and the wire, from the back of the connector, making contact with the terminal. While cranking the engine, you should read approximately 21VDC on the white/red wire. When running, it will be 45VDC.

Report back.

[dudule45]

thanks for all inormations

7.7volts starter action to the three injectors red and white thread + mass

control sensor effect hall 144 ohms

thank you

[martincom]

The 7.7VDC on the white/red wire is low. It should be at least 21VDC. You likely have either a stator issue or EMM issue. Your next step will be to check the continuity of each section of the stator. This is done measuring the resistance across the specified pins of the stator harness plug that mates with the EMM. The link I included in my previous message will detail how to do this.

[dudule45]

Check performed on the unplugged connector 10 pins 45 volts
3/10 0.5 ohms
4/9 0.5 ohms
5 / mass OL


check performed on the disconnected 40-pin connector
1/12 0.3 ohms
2/11 0.3 ohms


to control the rest I have to activate the starter?


connected connectors?

[martincom]

There is no 5/mass measurement. It should be 5/8. Please re-check. Also, check each for shorts to ground (mass).

Next, measure the AC voltage from the same stator sections, while cranking engine, and compare to the service manual specifications, below:

[K447]

Check performed on the unplugged connector 10 pins 45 volts
3/10 0.5 ohms
4/9 0.5 ohms
5 / mass OL


check performed on the disconnected 40-pin connector
1/12 0.3 ohms
2/11 0.3 ohms

...

All five stator coils connect to the same 12 pin Deutsch DT connector. Five pairs of wires, each stator coil connects to the pins opposite each other. 1-12, 2-11, and so on.

The 40 pin large connector is not part of the stator coil testing.

[dudule45]

[QUOTE = K447; 2981814] Les cinq bobines de stator sont connect?®es au m?¬me connecteur Deutsch DT 12 broches. Cinq paires de fils, chaque bobine de stator se connecte aux broches oppos?®es. 1-12, 2-11, etc.

Le grand connecteur ?á 40 broches ne fait pas partie du test de la bobine de stator. [/ QUOTE]: facepalm:: facepalm:

Controle connecteur 12 broches

1/12 0.8 ohms
2/11 0.9 ohms
3/10 0.7 ohms
4/9 0.7 ohms
5/8 0.7 ohms

[dudule45]

Tension de d?®marrage du stator (approximative) (couleurs de fil associ?®es aux broches situ?®es sur les sch?®mas de c?óblage.)

Broches:

1 et 12 7Vca (courant alternatif 4,5v)

2 et 11 7Vca (courant alternatif 4,5v)

3 et 10 5Vca (courant alternatif 2.8v)

4 et 9 5Vac (courant alternatif 2.8v)

5 et 8 5Vac (courant alternatif 2.7v)



5/8 0.7 ohms

[K447]

Low AC voltage from all five Ficht stator coils suggests that the flywheel magnets may be damaged (remove flywheel to confirm) or the engine is cranking slowly (weak battery, weak starter motor, binding jet pump impeller or bad jet pump bearings).

Or bad bearings inside the engine

My guess is the flywheel magnets are broken.

Tension de d?®marrage du stator (approximative) (couleurs de fil associ?®es aux broches situ?®es sur les sch?®mas de c?óblage.)

Broches:

1 et 12 7Vca (courant alternatif 4,5v)

2 et 11 7Vca (courant alternatif 4,5v)

3 et 10 5Vca (courant alternatif 2.8v)

4 et 9 5Vac (courant alternatif 2.8v)

5 et 8 5Vac (courant alternatif 2.7v)



5/8 0.7 ohms