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96 sl900 no spark accept when button released

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  • 96 sl900 no spark accept when button released

    Guys, I'm going crazy. I need polaris guru help

    571-277 4516- chris

    Helping a friend with a motor swap and sorting out alot of problems.
    1st no power- bad breaker- replaced now cranks
    2- melted small ground wire from batter neg to curcuit board. I replaced the whole wire
    3- repaired spliced / damaged stator wire which it did run.

    Now i got an intermittent spark. Occasionally it will run but more often than not there isn't any spark until the start button is released.

    Replaced damaged flywheel. Cracked magnet from a prior issues. Stator screw walked out and jammed in between stator and magnet

    Did sbt ignition upgrade kit. Same thing. No spark
    Called sbt tech. They had me check voltaged to brown wire to see if there was 9v. Below 9

    They suggested me to swap batteries. I installed new fully charged battery to have cranking voltage 10.5 plus

    Sbt sent me another stator. Pulled motor 2nd time
    Same issue. Once in a blue moon she'll run. But 99 out of hundred just cranks. Release button then a blip of strong spark.

    Pulled motor 3rd time put original stator and ecu. Same thing.

    Drove to a local guy who works on polaris and we swapped out the 2 modules that are attached to the curcuit board. Same issue. He gave up

    Found a loose connection and a yellow wire on wrong location
    Pulled motor 4th time put all original sbt ignition upgrade kit. Motor ran. I tried 3 times in a row. It ran. So i timed motor @ 3k 18?? bolted the bastard back in the ski.

    Ski sat over night. Battery disconnect switch off. Tried to start same flipping no spark issue

    I need the help of a master

    Ps i believe i tested the kill switch correctly. But i have a question. Should the start button crank the ski over with not lanyard installed???? I know in a yamaha it wont crank with out a lanyard
    96 xp 800
    09 fx sho 85+
    11 rxt-x
    12 fx sho
    2022 275XD

  • #2
    Also i noticed some times it cranks, has spark and wont start which sound crazy. Tried a little fuel and no igintion with spark and fuel. Compression is 135 all 3 cylinders
    96 xp 800
    09 fx sho 85+
    11 rxt-x
    12 fx sho
    2022 275XD

    Comment


    • #3
      Spark only when letting off the start button is a text book example of too little cranking voltage. Most Polaris need 10.6 v or better to start-especially with the updated ignition. Sounds crazy- but Polaris want a really good battery. We use Deka brand -Autozone (gold) sells a relabeled Deka.

      What is the part # on the old CDI ?

      With enough cranking voltage-the CDI will turn on-Sending around 9v on the brown wire, meaning the ignition is "awake".

      My 96 SL700 will crank with out the lanyard- has the start button on the console.

      The stop button works by grounding the CDI Black with yellow stripe wire. I've kept that wire disconnected while testing- but be ready to ground it to shut it off.
      Last edited by K447; 04-23-2018, 10:57 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank 4 the input
        12.85 full charge on new battery

        Replacement ecu that came with sbt kit is a pvl art nr 573 210 p.n.4010885

        Original ecu has 4010448 in white marker on back side and 4010379 on front

        11.18volts while cranking ski

        Brown wire 5.05 while cranking not 9volt??
        96 xp 800
        09 fx sho 85+
        11 rxt-x
        12 fx sho
        2022 275XD

        Comment


        • #5
          Seems like 5volts to the brown wire is the issue. I seen. 2 other's post the same issues. But never how it was resolved
          96 xp 800
          09 fx sho 85+
          11 rxt-x
          12 fx sho
          2022 275XD

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dirty Sanchez View Post
            Seems like 5volts to the brown wire is the issue. I seen. 2 other's post the same issues. But never how it was resolved
            Alternative for weak 8 volt Brown wire output from Gen III red domestic engine CDI
            sigpic
            How to post your question, AFTER you have done your homework
            Asking for help via Private Message?
            For Ficht EMM Repairs, contact Lakeside Tech
            Yamaha NanoXcel hull repair info
            Polaris PWC useful info

            Comment


            • #7
              K447, i swapped out cdi. Batteries. Seems to have spark. Now has 7.8 to 8 volts to brown wire. In line spark tester shows sparks. But now isnt running. Tried gas. New plugs. All 3 cylinders has 140 psi compression. Not sure whats up with my timing gun today. Either i have issue with spark or my timing / timing gun. It isnt strobing???? Static timing- I brought ft cylinder to tdc flywheel and timing mark points to zero on flywheel.
              Last edited by Dirty Sanchez; 04-23-2018, 06:26 PM. Reason: Typo
              96 xp 800
              09 fx sho 85+
              11 rxt-x
              12 fx sho
              2022 275XD

              Comment


              • #8
                Your saga sounds eerily like what I went through last spring repairing an SL1050 (96 or 97 ??). I had a no spark issue to start with on original stator/cdi... so I swapped in a new aftermarket gen3 update kit (stator/cdi). It had no spark with the new after-market system. I too troubleshoot a low voltage on the brown stator wire. If I juiced the brown wire with a 9V battery while cranking it... it started sparking great. And I was using a fully charged AGM Deka battery too. So I got in a second stator (pulled engine again) to put in. This was better... sorta. It would now start and run... but as soon as the engine got up to full temps, if you turned off the ski and attempted a restart... even like 30 seconds later... it wouldn't start. No spark or too weak spark. What a PITA this repair was. I eventually got fed up with the aftermarket system and found an OEM PVL gen3 stator (ebay) and a PVL gen3 cdi. Ski runs like top now... no starting/spark issues hot or cold anymore.

                The SBT aftermarket kit comes with a PVL (OEM) cdi... but I don't think you can find any new PVL stators anymore. Back last year when I was looking, all new stators now are aftermarket non-OEM. And I'm convinced the stator was the issue in my case.

                Good luck in your repairs.

                Cheers!
                Last edited by ripcuda; 04-24-2018, 06:07 PM.
                '04 MSX 150 (#1) - Precision ECU, 36mm turbo, sleeved, Wiseco pistons, FST gears
                '04 MSX 150 (#2) - Stocker, 225+hrs, former C.G. Auxiliary
                '95 SLT 750 (#1) - Rebuilt crank, rebuilt carbs, triple pump
                '95 SLT 750 (#2) - Top end (+.75mm), rebuilt carbs, triple pump
                '95 SL 750 - parts
                -- past: '95 SLT750, '01 Rio 1200, '04 MSX150, '03 MSX140, '91 Kawi 650sx, '92 Kawi X2, '94 SLT750, '96 SL780

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is my attempts at fixing the sl 900.
                  1 put original lr module in
                  2 orange jumper to cdi
                  3 added 2nd ground
                  4 new positive cable
                  5 pulled fuel tank
                  6 played with timing 6 diff positions on replacement flywheel
                  7 drank som bourbon. 2 doubles
                  8 put original flywheel back on
                  Same issue- weak spark 8.2-8.4 volts
                  96 xp 800
                  09 fx sho 85+
                  11 rxt-x
                  12 fx sho
                  2022 275XD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    s
                    Originally posted by Dirty Sanchez View Post
                    This is my attempts at fixing the sl 900.
                    1 put original lr module in
                    2 orange jumper to cdi
                    3 added 2nd ground
                    4 new positive cable
                    5 pulled fuel tank
                    6 played with timing 6 diff positions on replacement flywheel
                    7 drank som bourbon. 2 doubles
                    8 put original flywheel back on
                    Same issue- weak spark 8.2-8.4 volts
                    Engine does not need LR module, at all, to start and run. You can leave it completely disconnected (all wires unplugged) until you get the engine running.

                    CDI Red/Purple to Orange is not helpful for diagnosing a no-cold-start problem. Connect CDI RED/Purple to all the other Red/Purple. Leave it there until you get engine to start and run. *

                    No no idea what you are doing with the 'timing' and six different flywheel positions. There is a key way and woodruff key. It should be present and used to align flywheel with crank shaft. The inner timing ring does NOT affect spark intensity. If spark is weak, problem is not with timing.

                    note: RESTART after running is a different story. if RESTART is a problem, but it WILL restart if you let it sit for ten minutes, then all will be OK when the LR module is reconnected and Orange wire CDI connection is used.

                    What voltage are you measuring as 8.x volts? AC or DC?
                    sigpic
                    How to post your question, AFTER you have done your homework
                    Asking for help via Private Message?
                    For Ficht EMM Repairs, contact Lakeside Tech
                    Yamaha NanoXcel hull repair info
                    Polaris PWC useful info

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dirty Sanchez View Post
                      ... i swapped out cdi. Batteries.

                      Seems to have spark. Now has 7.8 to 8 volts to brown wire.

                      In line spark tester shows sparks. But now isnt running. Tried gas. New plugs. All 3 cylinders has 140 psi compression.

                      Not sure whats up with my timing gun today. Either i have issue with spark or my timing / timing gun. It isnt strobing???? Static timing- I brought ft cylinder to tdc flywheel and timing mark points to zero on flywheel.
                      Always, always confirm battery voltage while engine is cranking. Do this every time you begin diagnostics. Voltage while cranking must stay well above 10.6 volts.

                      If battery is good while cranking, confirm voltage at CDI is also above 10.6 while cranking.

                      Check that you have the correct spark plug wire to each cylinder.

                      Set it up as a single cylinder engine. MAG cylinder with spark plug connected. Other two plug wires grounded. See if it will fire at all. Will need choke and maybe some throttle to get it running if it does try to fire.

                      If NO firing at all, swap to another plug wire, connected to MAG. Try again to start.

                      If still no ignition, try the third plug wire connected to the MAG spark plug.

                      ONE of the plug wires should be able to fire and run the entire engine, with just MAG cylinder firing. It will run rough, but it should run.

                      Video is from a while back and is about a modified blue Polaris Fuji engine, but watch as they work out which spark plug wire belongs to each cylinder.

                      Note that on the red engine 900 and 1050 engines Polaris had two different ignition coil packs. The wire sequence to the spark plugs differs. Also, I have seen 900 engine crankshafts with two different firing orders for CEN and PTO cylinders, so it is quite possible to have the firing order (and spark plug wire sequence) mixed up.

                      sigpic
                      How to post your question, AFTER you have done your homework
                      Asking for help via Private Message?
                      For Ficht EMM Repairs, contact Lakeside Tech
                      Yamaha NanoXcel hull repair info
                      Polaris PWC useful info

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was trying 6 diff adjustments on the flywheel by loosening the 2 set screws to see by chance if i timed the motor wrong when it was running on sunday

                        I was measuring the 8.2 volts from brown wire to coil and ground.
                        96 xp 800
                        09 fx sho 85+
                        11 rxt-x
                        12 fx sho
                        2022 275XD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Firing order is correct. It ran briefly sunday and i timed the motor. Someone else suggest musical coil wires. All i got was a very bad backfire and hearing loss
                          96 xp 800
                          09 fx sho 85+
                          11 rxt-x
                          12 fx sho
                          2022 275XD

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Pix

                            So whats the best version stator and where to buy it???
                            Part # plz
                            Attached Files
                            96 xp 800
                            09 fx sho 85+
                            11 rxt-x
                            12 fx sho
                            2022 275XD

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Polaris part number #4060128 would be an original (Gen1) non-updated stator for the red domestic three cylinder engine. The part number for the updated (Gen3) stator for the 1050 is #4010403. That said, all 1200 red engines have a Gen3 stator that is the same, but the rubber grommet on the wires for sealing water out of the flywheel/stator housing is different.

                              See this great old thread for details about testing your stator (Gen1 and Gen3):
                              http://www.greenhulk.net/showthread.php?t=97491

                              Cheers!
                              '04 MSX 150 (#1) - Precision ECU, 36mm turbo, sleeved, Wiseco pistons, FST gears
                              '04 MSX 150 (#2) - Stocker, 225+hrs, former C.G. Auxiliary
                              '95 SLT 750 (#1) - Rebuilt crank, rebuilt carbs, triple pump
                              '95 SLT 750 (#2) - Top end (+.75mm), rebuilt carbs, triple pump
                              '95 SL 750 - parts
                              -- past: '95 SLT750, '01 Rio 1200, '04 MSX150, '03 MSX140, '91 Kawi 650sx, '92 Kawi X2, '94 SLT750, '96 SL780

                              Comment

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